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Thread: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

  1. #1

    Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    dandavat

    Here it is a description of Raganuga Sadhan bhakti given in Bhakti-rasämrita-sindhu 1.2.295

    sevA sAdhaka-rUpeNa siddha-rUpeNa cAtra hi |
    tad-bhAva-lipsunA kAryA vraja-lokAnusArataH ||

    The devotional service should be done both -sevA cAtra hi
    in the body of practitioner (externally)- sAdhaka-rUpeNa
    and in the perfect(spiritual) body (internally) - siddha-rUpeNa
    Desiring to obtain a particular state of love - tad-bhAva-lipsunA ,
    whose essence (in obtaining it) is to follow the residents of Vrindavan -sArataH kAryA anu vraja-loka


    Tika:
    As we have seen the informations about one’s spiritual body (siddha deha) are received in the Siddha Pranali initiation (comprising the ekadas bhava), which is even derided in the branches of Gaudiya Math (which includes Iskcon).
    Commenting on this verse Srila Vishwanath Cakrabarti describes from the point of view of a rupa-anuga devotee the two types of angas of bhakti practiced in “sadhak-rupa” and “siddha-rupa” following Rupa Goswami, respectively Rupa Manjari
    PAMHO
    Nitai-Gauranga Haribol ~
    Gaura bhakta vrunda ki jay

    I have a hypothetical qn: Acc. to Gaura-GaNodesha-DeepikA, there are only those handful of Yutheshwaris that came with Mahaprabhu in the Gaur Leela.

    So, siddha-prANAli would accordingly have limited roles assigned to the sAdhaks by their respective Gurus.

    Let us say, hypothetically, we come into this golden period and suddenly 100,000 sAdhaks having taken [mass] dikshA are enlightened, in mAdhurya, in each Yutha (group) [especially Rupa Manjari's group]. Or to extend the hypothesis, let us say a million or billion.

    What happens ? Does LalitA, Rupa manjari, IndulekhA devis need a billion assistants ? Now you will say - "don't think with your material mind." Fine.

    Also, it does not require rocket science to notice how the manjaris (their names) are actually aspects of Vrajeshwari VrushabhAnu-nandini Radha's personality : rUpa (form), lAvaNya (beauty), rati (attraction-love/sneha), ras (we all know what that is), guNa (qualities), sudhA (again , ras, pure, essence of sweetness - this also happens to be one of Radha's names in RadhaSahasranama), prem (highest selfless Love after mahAbhAv), ananga (formless) ...

    So it is no wonder they are buds of the creeper Radha. However, Lalita and Vishakha and other sakhis are also all aspects of Radha.

    Now we suddenly have these N billion sAdhanA-siddha gopis all at once. (Well, BrahmaVaivarta PurAN states there are numerous gopis as it is).



    Is each gopi supposed to concentrate on a very very very detail specific service ?
    Do you see what i mean ? My vayjayanti haar would be wilted by the time it reaches KrushNa or the Yutheshwari. It would be great fortune if one gets to glance at another one picking a flower from VrundAdevi's garden, handing it to her neighbour who puts it in a basket and hands the basket to her neighbour and at the end of the chain is the haar maker who then makes the haar, her gopi-boss checks it, then it is approved and finally signed off by the gopi-boss's boss.....

    A sAdhanA-sidha gopi would never see KRushNa at all, but actually He is right beside her, so what am i missing ?

    OR , are we not otherwise implying that there are 1 million Rupa manjaris, 10,000 sudhA manjaris, KRushNA alone knows how many Lalitas!

    Then why not a zillion Radhas ? Ans: For rasa tattva, and enhancing ras... plus none would have the mahAbhav even close. Fine, but then where do you draw the line, and why shout MAyAvad when two neighbouring sAdhaks claim to be the same identical gopi ? OR, can there be 10,000 Manjaris with the same name ?

    Same with all other rasas, in fact worse.

    Sorry if this qn is inappropriate for the forum - if so, i shall delete it immediately. Just thought others may have similar qns.

    Thank you.

    Hare KRushNa
    praNAm
    Last edited by smaranam; 29 March 2011 at 10:50 PM. Reason: typo
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    PAMHO
    Nitai-Gauranga Haribol ~
    Gaura bhakta vrunda ki jay

    I have a hypothetical qn: Acc. to Gaura-GaNodesha-DeepikA, there are only those handful of Yutheshwaris that came with Mahaprabhu in the Gaur Leela.

    So, siddha-prANAli would accordingly have limited roles assigned to the sAdhaks by their respective Gurus.
    Dandavat,
    You may be given a certain role, but you are trained in all the arts, the gopis are proficient in. Immagine only the art of dressing, make-up, singing and dancing.


    "Krishna makes his desire known to the gopis by playing his flute, and they respond by singing Krishna’s names.

    Krishna says, “Oh dear ones! The moonrays beautify the forest and its flowers and they are carrying my desire to enjoy with you.”

    The gopis answer: “Oh Krishna, Krishna, Krishna! Oh Ramana! Let it be so!”

    Thus taking his sundari ramanis, Krishna sweetly sings and wanders with them under every tree and every lata and in every kunja." (from Nisha lila of Govinda Lilamrita)

    Krishna is simultaneously with different, different gopis in Vrindavan.
    Krishna is sumultaneouly with Radha, her main majaris, and with different, different other manjaris in Vrindavan.
    Krishna is sumultaneouly with Radha, her main majaris, her main sakhsi and with different, different other manjaris and other followers of the sakhis in Vrindavan.

    Nobody comes short by the pastimes of Krishna.
    When one feels she wants to be alone with Krishna, Krishna let it happen.
    When one got through the school of the gopis, or sakhis, or manjaris of Radha, one is in the position to know how to please and love Krishna, the gopis, the sakhis and all the other.

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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Let us say, hypothetically, we come into this golden period and suddenly 100,000 sAdhaks having taken [mass] dikshA are enlightened, in mAdhurya, in each Yutha (group) [especially Rupa Manjari's group]. Or to extend the hypothesis, let us say a million or billion.

    What happens ? Does LalitA, Rupa manjari, IndulekhA devis need a billion assistants ? Now you will say - "don't think with your material mind." Fine.
    Dandavat,
    There is no problem with it, the Wonderland of Krishna - Vraja - "The Spell" can get any size.

    I may give you an exemple:
    Sri Lalitanandada-kunja (lightning color)

    Verse 31-34 from Purvana Lila of Govinda Lilamrita:
    "North of Radha Kund is Lalita Sakhi’s immense kunja made up eight sub-kunjas that resemble an eightlotus stemsed lotus. In the nucleus of this lotus is the astonishing courtyard named Anangambuja, itself shaped like a thousandlotus stemsed lotus with a golden cottage in the center. Surrounding the courtyard is a patch of banana trees. The courtyard is amazing because it can expand or contract in size, according to the demands of the lila. This area is carefully maintained by Lalita’s disciple, Kalavati. Here, the pleasurable opulences of the six seasons always manifest to assist Radha Govinda’s various keli-vinoda."

    And even more than that, the space of Vrindavan has also the quality that it brings in front of you the one (Krishna) or the ones (Radha-Krishna or any other) direct in front of you, wherever you may stay in a circle of gopis or sakhis or manjaris around Him or around Radha-Krishna...
    This is also described in the Hindol-lila in GL.

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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Is each gopi supposed to concentrate on a very very very detail specific service ?
    Do you see what i mean ? My vayjayanti haar would be wilted by the time it reaches KrushNa or the Yutheshwari. It would be great fortune if one gets to glance at another one picking a flower from VrundAdevi's garden, handing it to her neighbour who puts it in a basket and hands the basket to her neighbour and at the end of the chain is the haar maker who then makes the haar, her gopi-boss checks it, then it is approved and finally signed off by the gopi-boss's boss.....
    Is not like that. You may directly serve and love, when you basically got it; even if the learning ... never ends. You may be introduce for example in the huge clan of Lalita by many, many other gopis of the chain you belong to, but they are your own family, you love them, and they love you; there is no boss idea, even if they may learn you their art of life, and love ... they do it because you are a very special person that qualified to be with them. They are very fragile and tender, tall, slender, big eyes, beautiful hair... very ...fairy tale like.

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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    A sAdhanA-sidha gopi would never see KRushNa at all, but actually He is right beside her, so what am i missing ?
    Don`t worry, your wish is Krishna`s command, and that will be quickly reality.
    If the purpose of your sadhana was: not seeing Krishna, than you won`t see Him, even if other see Him right in front of you.

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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    OR , are we not otherwise implying that there are 1 million Rupa manjaris, 10,000 sudhA manjaris, KRushNA alone knows how many Lalitas!

    Then why not a zillion Radhas ?
    No, not like that. Even if it looks the same, still one should understand it in this way: There is one Radha, one Lalita and so on.
    They may multiply in uncountable numbers.

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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Ans: For rasa tattva, and enhancing ras... plus none would have the mahAbhav even close.
    All the sakhis and manjaris that feel with Radha the time She is in mahabhav, may touch the same ecstasy. Through empathy they "become" Radha ... in feelings.

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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Fine, but then where do you draw the line, and why shout MAyAvad when two neighbouring sAdhaks claim to be the same identical gopi ?
    Same with all other rasas, in fact worse.
    Dandavat,
    I think Jiva Gosvami explains that in the spiritual sky there are spiritual bodies parked, which are different, and in the moment of accomplishment one gets into one of those bodies. I must look to see, where it comes. In the Gaudiya Math, they try to twist this information, which is presented by the babajis of Radha Kund.

    Is something like in the film Avatar (2009) as one person got temporary into a certain blue body to learn the way of a certain folk of a wood, practicing a kind of raganuga (bhakti), and loving that folk he left his body and got definitly in the other, the blue body, by the power of the Goddess of that wood.

    Yes the same should be in the other rasas in the Wonderland Vrindavan.

  9. #9

    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    PAMHO

    I wanted to know where this rAga + anuga process actually leads, so thank you very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    They are very fragile and tender, tall, slender, big eyes, beautiful hair... very ...fairy tale like.
    That was nectar to the ears. Of Course, if KrushNa's crown touches the ceiling, the maidens of Braj who are expansions of His Shakti are going to be very gentle, lovely and tall. ( I had used the word boss not in a negative way , but only as a technical means to describe what i was saying - in fact i have never used it in the material world, so wonder why ).

    These maidens are simply so lovely and sarva-guNa-sampanna that in one's natural state one can only adore them - involuntarily.

    Hare KrushNa

    praNAm
    Last edited by smaranam; 31 March 2011 at 12:07 PM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  10. #10

    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Many praNAms

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    I think Jiva Gosvami explains that in the spiritual sky there are spiritual bodies parked, which are different, and in the moment of accomplishment one gets into one of those bodies. I must look to see, where it comes.
    Aha ! Would that be in Preeti Sandarbha ? This is all that is required.

    In the Gaudiya Math, they try to twist this information,
    Yes, Lord Chaitanya is OK with this, shAstra is OK with this, i don't know about Gaudiya Math, but beware dear devotees, do not lose hope if you hear this from arbritary sources:

    1. A direct relationship with KrshNa is being in mAyA : "Your KRshNa is your imagination" ( - but who will bother to tell them He is real) ,
    2. "This is sense gratification",
    3. MAyAvAd owing to merging with a nitya-siddha,
    4. Selfishness (because He only belongs to Radha and since you are not Her, and since Radha is actually KRushNA so this will be mAyAvAd),
    5. apa-siddhAnta
    6. "You will take birth again as a girl in this world" (so ? Wherever you lead me dear Lord)
    7. Accuse you of mAyAvAd and hence "there is no need to sugar-coat it with bhakti which looks more like PUtnA-bhakti"
    8. This is not pure devotion

    I am so so grateful to my Dearest One Who is my Guru, (till date i do not understand why He is so merciful ).

    I am writing this for other devotees, who may face the same thing.

    Thanks again for being patient, and i can only hope that no VaishNav is mad at me.

    Jai Shri KRshNa
    many praNAms
    Last edited by smaranam; 02 April 2011 at 11:52 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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