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Thread: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

  1. #11
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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    I think Jiva Gosvami explains that in the spiritual sky there are spiritual bodies "parked", which are different, and in the moment of accomplishment one gets into one of those bodies. I must look to see, where it comes.
    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Many praNAms
    Aha ! Would that be in Preeti Sandarbha ?
    Dandavat,

    Yes, it comes from Priti Sandharba 71

    dharmena bhagavatat kena vaykuntasya bhagavato – according to Bhagavatam in Vaikuntha there is a Suprem Lord
    jyoter angsa bhuta– in his effulgence there are some “limbs”(particles) of beings
    vaikuntha loka sobha rupa – (which are) beautiful forms of the realm of Vaikuntha
    yah ananta murtayas – there are innumerable forms
    tatra vartante kah same ka-yah sah – any of it will become one with whom?
    sah muktasya kasya murte – that is a liberated soul which attains that form
    bhagavata kryata iti - Bhagavatam testifies for it.
    Last edited by anadi; 09 April 2011 at 02:48 AM.

  2. #12
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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Pranam dear smaranam ji and Anadi ji,

    I think i can able to help you about your above questions as i had similar doubts before and by grace of my beloved Gurudev, i got the correct answer.

    Infact Sri Rupa Goswami has given the correct answer in above line.

    BHAVALOKA (nityaloke or nityavrindavan) is not made up of according to the components and rules of Mrityuloka. here lies the confusion.

    Whatever is Bhava here ,is actually is a Form there.

    BHAVA became PERSONIFIED

    In nityavrindavan there is no individual presence like he,she.me ,you etc. but Only Bhava is there,each bhava has taken a specific form.

    To be clear,i will explain this way..... suppose Kanta bhava. there are 100 women with 100 husband. suppose you will be given a option to keep one MAN as there is no place for 99 persons. but 100 women can"t accept a single Man as their husband.

    but if we take out that components from a man which is the component factor of his husband-hood and create a man form,then it will be acceptable to 100 women.

    This is the basic building factor of Nityalok. here all forms are like condensed(though not appropriate term) Bhava.
    Our mothers are different. but if we see the mother in Nityalok, we can identify our own mother in that single Mother form.

    so Bhavalok is not a limited place or something like that,but its like eternal,infinite which can hold entire creation billions times.

    There is one RADHA, but billions of devotee can become Radha by proper Bhakti. there is only one lalita,one bisakha but billions of people can become Lalita,bisakha.....so on......

    When one practice to be one particular manjari,sakhi.... at the maturation of his/her bhakti he will merge into that bhava form at nityalok. it is called LAYA hojana. here laya doesn"t means nirvana of advita vedanta.

    THIS MAY BE CALLED SAJUJYA LAYA INTO A PARTICULAR BHAVA.

    because your siddha sarira( antaschinta sarira) is made up of that bhava component...bhava-sarira. so its becomes united/LAYA or merged or Become same and one( sajujya) with the desired Shakhi/bhava sarira of nityavrindavan.

    This way the worshipers of Shiva,Ganesh, Krishna, jesus etc all can see their respective desired RUPA in one Nitya thakur of nityalok and do their Seva.

    Here i would want to emphasize one important thing. one can also do sadhna thinking him as Krishna and merge with srikrishna of vrindavan. though this is unique and happens with very very rare sadhaka which has happened few times.

    I hope any body can have clear understanding about bhava lok with above explanation.Bhava is something based upon and above Advita,if one can"t understand advita clearly,one can never understand bhava properly. in bhava loka, each and every components are established in advita knowledge yet wishfully taken dvita form and dvaita role for oneself to do leela.

    jayagurudev
    Last edited by anirvan; 09 April 2011 at 03:27 AM.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  3. #13
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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    ... i got the correct answer.
    Whatever is Bhava here, is actually a Form there.
    BHAVA becames PERSONIFIED

    In nityavrindavan there is no individual presence...
    dandavat,

    If there would be no individual presence, would mean that all raganuga sadhakas, who would allegedly attain the mood of Radha, will merge in one body, because ... al least she remains as an individual.
    Even if the raganuga sadhaka would be a second Radha, which also is not the way a raganuga sadhaka should think, he would still act as an individual person, doing his own lilas with Krishna, but with the generic mood or bhava of Radha, as all the Radhas that may exist, according the idea of your gurudeva, in nitya vrindavan.
    Last edited by anadi; 09 April 2011 at 09:22 AM.

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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    There is one RADHA, but billions of devotee can become Radha by proper Bhakti. there is only one lalita,one bisakha but billions of people can become Lalita,bisakha.....so on......

    Here i would want to emphasize one important thing. one can also do sadhna thinking him as Krishna and merge with srikrishna of vrindavan.
    dandavat,

    I understand that you got these ideas from your gurudeva.
    I personally would like very much these ideas, which are very enticing.
    Unfortunately a great siddha baba like Visvanatha Cakravaripada wrote in his Raga Vartma Candrika text 12:

    tani carcana bhaktavahangropasana - identifying oneslef with the object of worship during arcana
    mudra nyasa dvaraka dhyana - using mudras, practicing nyasa, meditating on Dvaraka
    rukminyadi pujadiny - worshiping Rukmini and the others
    agama sastra vihitanyapi naivi karyani - are practices described in the agama sastras which the raganugiya sadhaka should not perform.

    The above practices belong obvioulsy to svabhista-bhava-virudha
    unfavorable items (pratikula) which hamper the development of Braja bhakti, as delineated in the text 13.
    Last edited by anadi; 09 April 2011 at 09:27 AM.

  5. #15

    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    Yes, it comes from Priti Sandharba 71

    dharmena bhagavatat kena vaykuntasya bhagavato – according to Bhagavatam in Vaikuntha there is a Suprem Lord
    jyoter angsa bhuta– in his effulgence there are some “limbs”(particles) of beings
    vaikuntha loka sobha rupa – (which are) beautiful forms of the realm of Vaikuntha
    yah ananta murtayas – there are innumerable forms
    tatra vartante kah same ka-yah sah – any of it will become one with whom?
    sah muktasya kasya murte – that is a liberated soul which attains that form
    bhagavata kryata iti - Bhagavatam testifies for it.
    Thanks AnadiJi

    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  6. #16

    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    Pranam dear smaranam ji
    Dear smaranam was better

    BHAVALOKA (nityaloke or nityavrindavan) is not made up of according to the components and rules of Mrityuloka. here lies the confusion.

    Whatever is Bhava here ,is actually is a Form there.

    BHAVA became PERSONIFIED

    jayagurudev
    Thanks for your elaborate explanation.
    This was always my automatic understanding by experience and as a general Hindu thought. Meera (Hema Malini in the movie) said to the Temple Pujari "Ya to use Meera kaho ya muze Radha, muze uski sautan mat banao." (Either call Her Meera or call me Radha)
    and the pujari started laughing saying "who can question love ?"

    There is Him and insignificant me. Then by His mercy i stumbled upon this wonderful Gaudiya VaishNav theology and its follower devotees... Prolonged laughter. What do you want ? Just You. But you already have Me. That is right, i guess i will have to burn all these guNa-karma - bad habit of running around the internet digging into GV theology, other VaishNav philosophies, other philosophies, then come back to the nest, haven, heaven, You.

    I thought it had stopped, but apparently not, despite all His mercy, as see how i started this thread ? Well, i can tell myself it was for like-minded sakhis, God-sisters (and God-brothers who are actually soul-sisters). Actually, since we have a GV scholar here, it was a very good opportunity to ask him. PrashNena, always.

    VaishNavs reject sayujja with Bhagvan. Shuddha Advaita/Pushti Marg also does not see the point. It is not so simple. For GVs Radha is KrushNa, so they use that transitive property and indirectly it is Sayujja. I think the bigger concern is devotees prematurely calling themselves Yashoda Nanda Devaki Lalita Vishakha and so on. Plus, you will hear arguments like Radha is Hladini shakti and we are [eternally] tatastha shakti - which i suppose is fine as tatastha shakti can be "in the mood of" Radha as long as she is not surfing the internet.

    Jai Shri KrushNa ~

    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    dandavat,

    If there would be no individual presence, would mean that all raganuga sadhakas, who would allegedly attain the mood of Radha, will merge in one body, because ... al least she remains as an individual.
    Even if the raganuga sadhaka would be a second Radha, which also is not the way a raganuga sadhaka should think, he would still act as an individual person, doing his own lilas with Krishna, but with the generic mood or bhava of Radha, as all the Radhas that may exist, according the idea of your gurudeva, in nitya vrindavan.
    Dear Anadi,

    whatever i have said is not just an idea of my gurudev.when i mean guru,he is not just another mantra giving babaji with rotting sastra jnan. guru means satya-drasta rishi who has attained sajujya with parambrahman and is himself God. so you shouldnot use such lighter words at him,or else you know what harm you may get in spiritual path.

    my guru is not ordinary guru,but who has himself revealed few occasion about his swaroop,,who has explored those spiritual knowledge far accesible to Vyaas,vasistha,shankara. he is himselfthe vrindavan adhipati Sri Rasheswar nitya-thakur.and Raseswar never gives idea to human,they reveals his swaroop.
    and he never had got his philosophy from words of vaishnav literature. as one becomes vaishnav after his blessings only.such mahavaishnava,mahasiva comes once in a kalpa. who started his sadhna with aim of getting bhagban as his dasi,wife in his previous life in tantra. and later life after ascending the highest nirvikalpa of vedanta, in bhava sadhna got hladini as his wife.

    and remeber this vrindavan leela taken place in kaliyuga second time after chaitanya mahaprabhu here on earth.

    please dont mess up with fighting,contradicting vaishnav satras,who are creating web words of illusion. with clear mind and deeper sadhna you can realize truth.

    i have not read these sastras you are quoting,but its the truth revealed to me in my sadhna.

    i will suggest you to read the biography and literatures of my gurudev and you will be free from all of your confusion.

    i have clearly told,without advita jnana,talking about bhavaloka is laughable.its very truth.
    Last edited by anirvan; 10 April 2011 at 06:03 AM.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  8. #18
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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Dear smaranam was better



    Thanks for your elaborate explanation.
    This was always my automatic understanding by experience and as a general Hindu thought. Meera (Hema Malini in the movie) said to the Temple Pujari "Ya to use Meera kaho ya muze Radha, muze uski sautan mat banao." (Either call Her Meera or call me Radha)
    and the pujari started laughing saying "who can question love ?"

    There is Him and insignificant me. Then by His mercy i stumbled upon this wonderful Gaudiya VaishNav theology and its follower devotees... Prolonged laughter. What do you want ? Just You. But you already have Me. That is right, i guess i will have to burn all these guNa-karma - bad habit of running around the internet digging into GV theology, other VaishNav philosophies, other philosophies, then come back to the nest, haven, heaven, You.

    I thought it had stopped, but apparently not, despite all His mercy, as see how i started this thread ? Well, i can tell myself it was for like-minded sakhis, God-sisters (and God-brothers who are actually soul-sisters). Actually, since we have a GV scholar here, it was a very good opportunity to ask him. PrashNena, always.

    VaishNavs reject sayujja with Bhagvan. Shuddha Advaita/Pushti Marg also does not see the point. It is not so simple. For GVs Radha is KrushNa, so they use that transitive property and indirectly it is Sayujja. I think the bigger concern is devotees prematurely calling themselves Yashoda Nanda Devaki Lalita Vishakha and so on. Plus, you will hear arguments like Radha is Hladini shakti and we are [eternally] tatastha shakti - which i suppose is fine as tatastha shakti can be "in the mood of" Radha as long as she is not surfing the internet.

    Jai Shri KrushNa ~

    praNAm
    Pranam smaranam ji (vaishnava bhaktas are equivalent to kanha to me)

    i dont want try to understand this,as it will surely be revealed to you by the grace of sri rasewar.

    I will ask you to do manan on few question and let the answer revealed to you by his love...

    1) is there anything possible that kanha can"t give to his devotee ,even his swaroop,even the mahabhava of sri-radharani,swaroop of any sakhis ?

    2) is the vrindavan becomes empty without leela when he comes to earth as avatari ?

    3)why Radha-krishna ,bhakta-bhagaban are called one soul--two forms ?

    4) does bhagaban is so partial and egoistic like christianity/islam that if and only if one worship his in the form of SRIKRISHNA...he will eneter bhavalok ?

    5)does only habitants of earth can get into his leela,there are infinite universe with infinite creation..all loving him ?

    6) sajujya i said is not with vrindavaneswar,but with sakhis. thats the way of raganuga sadhna,to follow and acquire the bhava of a sakhi.

    7) doesn"t the so called are behaving like another fundamental religion to restrict bhagaban as a private God of a community ?

    8) is there something localised place called niyuavrindavan? if yes...where,which part of universe ?and is it a limited place ?

    i will pray at Mohana that he himself reveals himself to us.

    last thing to say-- when i wrote above post yesterday,at midnight i had this clear vision of nityavrindavan with complete tattva darshan.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  9. #19

    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    I will ask you to do manan on few question and let the answer revealed to you by his love...
    PraNAm AnirvanJi,

    I think you did not understand my post - perhaps because of the way i wrote it - my mistake. What part of it did you find contradictory to your thought ?

    PrANanAth my life, He has given me the answers i need. Did i not say that despite His Love, it was my bad habit of going all over the place to find things, but ultimately come back to His nest ? He is all that matters to me.

    These things do not matter to me any more. It is just that when we write we write for a community.

    What did i write in that navy blue line ?

    That last paragraph was only to give you the perspective of what practicng VaishNavs think today.

    I shall answer your qns anyway:

    1) is there anything possible that kanha can"t give to his devotee ,even his swaroop,even the mahabhava of sri-radharani,swaroop of any sakhis ?

    He is astonishingly infinitely generous. I have seen Him do it. It is not a question of cannot, it is a matter of bhaktas saying they do not want to think in that direction or seek Sayujja with Radha or Him, because that will affect their Vraja-bhav. But KAnhA showers (surprises) them with unexpected gifts anyways.

    2) is the vrindavan becomes empty without leela when he comes to earth as avatari ?

    Of course not. Please do not think my understanding is that primitive. He gives each bhakta their own [perspective of] Golok.

    3)why Radha-krishna ,bhakta-bhagaban are called one soul--two forms ?

    Because that is what they are. The Dearest and Closest to the heart says to the bhakta that they are Him. I am His dasi.

    4) does bhagaban is so partial and egoistic like christianity/islam that if and only if one worship his in the form of SRIKRISHNA...he will eneter bhavalok ?

    Bhavlok is not one single realm. They will be in the realm in which they worship Him - Aishvarya, Madhurya, Vaikuntha, Kailash etc. He reciprocates as per the bhav and says so in the Gita. However, Gaudiya sidhanta is to show how bhajan of Madhur Shri KrushNa swaroop is highest in bhavs, although to me He is Shri KrushNa, Govind, VAsudev - Dwarkadheesh, Narayan, Shri Ram, Narsimha, Sadashiv.

    5)does only habitants of earth can get into his leela,there are infinite universe with infinite creation..all loving him ?

    He belongs to the extra-terrestrials, and if not peacock-feathers and bamboo-flute, He uses whatever the ETs can understand, and gives them that perspective of His nitya leela.

    How Bhagvan reveals Himself to the ETs should not be our concern.


    6) sajujya i said is not with vrindavaneswar,but with sakhis. thats the way of raganuga sadhna,to follow and acquire the bhava of a sakhi.

    Yes, i understand and agree. If this was not the case, i would not be breathing right now, as my existence depends on what i am to Him. I cannot live without Him. He and only He (not me either) decides what i am to Him, and He has.
    In the beginning external inputs made me research into it, not anymore.
    I was only pointing out that some VaishNavs will tell you that Radha is KrushNa so we cannot be Her. This is out of their love for Radha as Her manjari.


    7) doesn"t the so called are behaving like another fundamental religion to restrict bhagaban as a private God of a community ?

    It does seem so initially, but they are not forcing their views on you or me. They are imposing that on their disciples who are out there to develop Vraja Bhav. They only caution the others who try to circumvent the Lord, that it can cause falldown. This message gets distorted in KaliYug.

    For me, KrushNa overrides them anyway. It is upto us to stay focused on Him internally and not look to the external sources. (Read again, what i wrote in font size one).

    One has to give up false ego, but can continue identifying with a bhav - that is as advaita as it gets.



    8) is there something localised place called niyuavrindavan? if yes...where,which part of universe ?and is it a limited place ?

    NityavrundAvan is in my heart right now, at the same time it is on Shwetadweep which is not on any physical map. But wait, my heart and soul is on Shwetadweep, i do NOT live where this body lives. I live in MashusUdan's heart and He in mine, my heart is His home, my home is His abode, His abode is my home, and all this is simultaneously true. Also, last Kartik i became so greedy that despite having Him in the heart i stole Him away from Vrundavan. To compensate, the entire Braj cascaded into the heart via fresh scented pavitra waters of the Yamuna.

    last thing to say-- when i wrote above post yesterday,at midnight i had this clear vision of nityavrindavan with complete tattva darshan.

    Hari bol !! Amazing ! shat shat praNAm

    Shri KrushNa Govind Hare MurAre he nAth nArAyaN VAsudeva ~
    Govinda Damodara Ma ~ ~ dhaveti ~

    [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by smaranam; 10 April 2011 at 09:36 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  10. #20
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    Re: Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    Dear Anadi,
    whatever i have said is not just an idea of my gurudev.
    when i mean guru,he is not just another mantra giving babaji with rotting sastra jnan.
    guru means satya-drasta rishi
    who has attained sajujya with parambrahman and is himself God.
    Dandavat,

    Well, maybe He is God - bhagavan-tattva, maybe He is not an ordinary jiva -... tattva.
    Or maybe, in your concenption he is an ordinary jiva who, becasue of his sadhana of many, many life times, became "special" and "attained sajujya with param -brahman" - the Supreme Lord, the aim of his sadhana.
    I think the second supposition, reflect your opinion.

    I still have some questions:
    - which form of the Supreme Lord, your guru became one with?
    and if He became one with that form, how is that He - the tiny jiva-spark - is still here in another body, as long as He is supposed to already became one with the Supreme Lord ... in one of His forms?
    - when did He revealed that form, He became one with?
    - whom He revealed that form?
    - what lila was the incentive for that revelation?

    I asume that some of his followers described all these in His biography, as long as you accept Him as such.

    PS
    If you accept the vedic knowledge, could you please tell me, where it is presented your conception?
    When you got all the answers, whatever it will take, please write me.
    Last edited by anadi; 10 April 2011 at 10:22 AM. Reason: new question

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