Gaudiya VaishNav Siddha PrANAli

[anadi]

i have not read these sastras you are quoting...

Certainly you didn`t. And this should be also the reason I should not accept it?
First I should enquire about the author - Visvanatha Cakravarti.

After the disappearance of Sriman Mahaprabhu and His eternal associates who had taken up residence in Vraja, some of the most influent great personalities of Gaudiya Vaishnavism were Srinivasa Acaraya, Narottama Thakura, and Syamananda Prabhu. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura was fourth in the line of disciplic succession coming from Srila Narottama Thakura.

As Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura grew older, he spent most of the time in a semi-conscious state, deeply absorbed in his siddha-deha (perfect body) in Radha-Krishna lila.
Not that, he got "an illumination" - and than he started to preach about it.
He followed the raganuga sadhana of attaining a manjari form in Radha-Krishna lila, and then he got more and more stuck in the lila, more and more outside of this world.
He is a true follower of Sri Caitanya. Not a fake.
For me his words are true.

[anadi]

i have not read these sastras you are quoting,but its the truth revealed to me in my sadhna.

Dandavat,
Who revealed to you in your sadhana, that an ordinary jiva can become Radha or Krishna?
...or describe the process of this revalation.

[anadi]

Dear Anadi,
whatever i have said is not just an idea of my gurudev.when i mean guru,he is not just another mantra giving babaji with rotting sastra jnan.

dandavat,
one should not give a general verdict for all the gurus of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, and put all of them in the same pot.
You said, you had no idea about Vishvanat Cakravarti and you still wrote such things, just to emphasize your guru is a great realized soul, with maybe the best realizations, and my knowledge is the obsolete knowledge from people with no (or less significant) realization.

Rupa Gosvami was also one of the greatest Gaudiya Vaishnavas, directly empowered by Sri Caitanya to reside in Vrindavan and..., who wrote about his realizations, which in my opinion no one wrote before him.
In his Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu he states:

kāma-sambandha-rūpe te prema-mātra-svarūpake |
nitya-siddhāśrayatayā nātra samyag vicārite ||1.2.289 ||

“Since kāma-rūpa (amorous form) and sambandha-rūpa (relative's form) which are caused by prema alone, take shelter of the nitya-siddhas, they have not been discussed thoroughly in this section.”

rāgātmikāyā dvaividhyād dvidhā rāgānugā ca sā |
kāmānugā ca sambandhānugā ceti nigadyate ||1.2.290||

“From these two types of rāgātmika -attachment of the soul, two types of rāgānuga-sādhana (bhakti), called kāmānuga (bhakti) and sambandhānuga (bhakti), are derived.”

tatra adhikārī —
rāgātmikāika-niṣṭhā ye vraja-vāsi-janādayaḥ |
teṣāṁ bhāvāptaye lubdho bhaved atrādhikāravān ||1.2.291 ||

“The qualification for rāgānuga-bhakti is as follows: That person who is
greedy for attaining a bhāva similar to that of the inhabitants of Vraja is qualified for rāgānuga-bhakti.

tat-tad-bhāvādi-mādhurye śrute dhīr yad apekṣate |
nātra śāstraṁ na yuktiṁ ca tal-lobhotpatti-lakṣaṇaṁ||1.2.292 ||

“The appearance of that greed is indicated when the intelligence does not depend on scripture and logic,
after realizing to some degree the sweetness of the love of the Vraja-vāsīs
through the process of hearing from the scriptures.”

vaidha-bhakty-adhikārī tu bhāvāvirbhavanāvadhi |
atra śāstraṁ tathā tarkam anukūlam apekṣate ||1.2.293 ||

“Those qualified for vaidhī-bhakti are dependent on scripture and favorable use of logic until the appearance of bhāva.”

So until one attains bhava, one should rely on the scriptures - which are revelations of the previous acaryas.

He also gives a nice definition of the state of bhava (BRS 1.3.1):

śuddha-sattva-viśeṣātmā / prema-suryāḿśu-sāmyabhāk
rucibhiś citta-māsṛṇya kṛd asau bhāva ucyate:

The specific state of pure goodness of the soul - viśeṣa śuddha-sattva atmā
(specificity given by the loving relation established between the soul and the Lord)
as the rays of the divine love manifest - prema-suryāḿśu sāmyabhāk
(and) the consciousness is melted by a blend of divine tastes –citta māsṛṇya rucibhiś
is called Bhava - bhāva ucyate.

[anirvan]

Dandavat,

Well, maybe He is God - bhagavan-tattva, maybe He is not an ordinary jiva -... tattva.
Or maybe, in your concenption he is an ordinary jiva who, becasue of his sadhana of many, many life times, became "special" and "attained sajujya with param -brahman" - the Supreme Lord, the aim of his sadhana.
I think the second supposition, reflect your opinion.

I still have some questions:
- which form of the Supreme Lord, your guru became one with?
and if He became one with that form, how is that He - the tiny jiva-spark - is still here in another body, as long as He is supposed to already became one with the Supreme Lord ... in one of His forms?
- when did He revealed that form, He became one with?
- whom He revealed that form?
- what lila was the incentive for that revelation?

I asume that some of his followers described all these in His biography, as long as you accept Him as such.

PS
If you accept the vedic knowledge, could you please tell me, where it is presented your conception?
When you got all the answers, whatever it will take, please write me.

pranam Anadi ji,

Yes,you have correctly concluded my points.i will give you a little details to you. have you read the Sadhna of BAMDAV in vedas. and are you aware of Basisthade4va"s sadhna with (Stri"m) badhu sadhna ?

in early vedic days,the concept of Bhagaban/Radha was not clear.Rishis saw first in there samadhi the glimpse of it.and named it Bijlikanya,then Gandharvi etc. i am talking about the sudhha sattva form of God. and they saw him in female form.

Then Rishi Vasistha took that task on himself to find who is this KHSANAPRABHA (GANDHARVI) ?

IT TOOK HIM ALMOST FEW MILLIONS YEARS OF KATHOR SADHNA.this is a long history. his sadhna ranges from nilachala to bindhya parvat and finally concluded at kamarupa (at kamakhya-assam..where that memory is still worshpped now).

And his sadhna was to make this suddha sattva khanaprabha as his wife.and he failed and cursed that badhu-bija to be a failed mantra forever.
and that spiritual accomplishment was unfulfilled till now.

Now i will tell about my Gurudev"s story. his sadhna started with aim of revenge against Mahashakti/God when he found himself in a very pathetic condition in 18th century.born a in suddha brahmin family became a goon with time after his mother was kidnapped by muslim invaders,father died and he came to footpath and subsequently came in a very pathetic condition to a brothel where his mother was a inmate.mother identifed the son and told him about the work of mahashakti,the reason they are now in and commited suicide. and this boy"s sadhna started in revenge against Mahashakti to make her his servant. you can read a lots of literature on MAHASADHAKA BRAHMANANDA GIRI. even after this also his sadhna remained unfulfilled in this birth.
thencame to next birth when he lost his beloved wife in teen age and again his sadhna was aimed to bring back his wife.

1st sadhna-was tantra..ina single night he got mahashakti as his wife,but was the not satisfied as tattva jingyasa came to his mind.

2nd-became jnana sadhaka sannyasi

3-with gurudev"s order became yogi and attained Nirvikalpa of vedanta...the highest in jnana marga.where few returns.

here lies the key to his swaroop. because from Nirvikalpa(highest form of nirbija samadhi) if some returns,the come witha swaroop and a special purpose. like DASO-AHAM(chaitanya). SIVO-AHAM(shankara) etc etc.

My gurudev came with onle one thought and feelings that GURU-AHOM...in supreme guru-bhava as he became identified with supreme guru-bindu of jagatguru and till he shed his mortal body...he always remained in that swaroop.

4th sadhna----till then he was pure advita jnani with who discards bhava and all radha.krishna,siva etc etc. but again in kashi Annapurna came to him and and broke his ignorance about bhava.

then he went to a lace in himalaya where he was instructed to meet maha-bhavca swaroopini gauri maa. and then there that place converted to bhavaloka where gaurimaa accepted him as husbana(like gopi/radha to krishna in raas) and subsequently open the nitya-bhava lok forever.

After that he came back to a place in jungle in assam where he spent 6 month in a house where God became his wife in skin and flesh and served him as dearest wife.after end she only pushed him to society and forced to become GURU to teach human the love and make them free from maya.

i hope from this you can conclude his swaroop,his bhavaleela etc as you are much known scholar and adhyatmika person.

yeah he left his incorporeal body,but told he will remain be Guru till his next task.(till the new yuga-and incarnation of jagatguru happens).his name is paramhansa Nigamananda saraswatidev.

when his devotee started telling him as incarnation,he was not happy and repeatedly told them that---KNOW ME THAT I AM SATGURU,NOT INCARNATION.AFTER THOUSANDS OF BIRTH,WITH SADHNA I KNOW GOD AND BECAME ONE WITH HIM.THATS MY SWAROOP.

and this swaroop was revealed to me also in my dream.

i got my initiation in dream and in meditraion. and my knowledge is mostly happened in my dream,tandra nad even awaken state while meditating.

One thing i want to say is---bhagaban/guru remains SIMULTANEOUSLY AND SAME TIME AT CENTER AS WELL AT PERIPHERY. remaining at nityalok he acts in mrityulok.

second thing without ADVITA,ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND BHAVA-LOKA COMPLETELY.one side of coin will be in dark.

Only jnana with prema can make one PURNA-JNANI.
he always asked to follow the devotion of chaitany,as he was his favourite and so many times he said about the presence of Sri-Chaitanya dev in Kirtana in his presence.so he was that much connected to him directly.

[anirvan]

PraNAm AnirvanJi,

I think you did not understand my post - perhaps because of the way i wrote it - my mistake. What part of it did you find contradictory to your thought ?

PrANanAth my life, He has given me the answers i need. Did i not say that despite His Love, it was my bad habit of going all over the place to find things, but ultimately come back to His nest ? He is all that matters to me.

These things do not matter to me any more. It is just that when we write we write for a community.

What did i write in that navy blue line ?

That last paragraph was only to give you the perspective of what practicng VaishNavs think today.

I shall answer your qns anyway:

1) is there anything possible that kanha can"t give to his devotee ,even his swaroop,even the mahabhava of sri-radharani,swaroop of any sakhis ?

He is astonishingly infinitely generous. I have seen Him do it. It is not a question of cannot, it is a matter of bhaktas saying they do not want to think in that direction or seek Sayujja with Radha or Him, because that will affect their Vraja-bhav. But KAnhA showers (surprises) them with unexpected gifts anyways.

2) is the vrindavan becomes empty without leela when he comes to earth as avatari ?

Of course not. Please do not think my understanding is that primitive. He gives each bhakta their own [perspective of] Golok.

3)why Radha-krishna ,bhakta-bhagaban are called one soul--two forms ?

Because that is what they are. The Dearest and Closest to the heart says to the bhakta that they are Him. I am His dasi.

4) does bhagaban is so partial and egoistic like christianity/islam that if and only if one worship his in the form of SRIKRISHNA...he will eneter bhavalok ?

Bhavlok is not one single realm. They will be in the realm in which they worship Him - Aishvarya, Madhurya, Vaikuntha, Kailash etc. He reciprocates as per the bhav and says so in the Gita. However, Gaudiya sidhanta is to show how bhajan of Madhur Shri KrushNa swaroop is highest in bhavs, although to me He is Shri KrushNa, Govind, VAsudev - Dwarkadheesh, Narayan, Shri Ram, Narsimha, Sadashiv.

5)does only habitants of earth can get into his leela,there are infinite universe with infinite creation..all loving him ?

He belongs to the extra-terrestrials, and if not peacock-feathers and bamboo-flute, He uses whatever the ETs can understand, and gives them that perspective of His nitya leela.

How Bhagvan reveals Himself to the ETs should not be our concern.

6) sajujya i said is not with vrindavaneswar,but with sakhis. thats the way of raganuga sadhna,to follow and acquire the bhava of a sakhi.

Yes, i understand and agree. If this was not the case, i would not be breathing right now, as my existence depends on what i am to Him. I cannot live without Him. He and only He (not me either) decides what i am to Him, and He has.
In the beginning external inputs made me research into it, not anymore.
I was only pointing out that some VaishNavs will tell you that Radha is KrushNa so we cannot be Her. This is out of their love for Radha as Her manjari.

7) doesn"t the so called are behaving like another fundamental religion to restrict bhagaban as a private God of a community ?

It does seem so initially, but they are not forcing their views on you or me. They are imposing that on their disciples who are out there to develop Vraja Bhav. They only caution the others who try to circumvent the Lord, that it can cause falldown. This message gets distorted in KaliYug.

For me, KrushNa overrides them anyway. It is upto us to stay focused on Him internally and not look to the external sources. (Read again, what i wrote in font size one).

One has to give up false ego, but can continue identifying with a bhav - that is as advaita as it gets.



8) is there something localised place called niyuavrindavan? if yes...where,which part of universe ?and is it a limited place ?

NityavrundAvan is in my heart right now, at the same time it is on Shwetadweep which is not on any physical map. But wait, my heart and soul is on Shwetadweep, i do NOT live where this body lives. I live in MashusUdan's heart and He in mine, my heart is His home, my home is His abode, His abode is my home, and all this is simultaneously true. Also, last Kartik i became so greedy that despite having Him in the heart i stole Him away from Vrundavan. To compensate, the entire Braj cascaded into the heart via fresh scented pavitra waters of the Yamuna.

last thing to say-- when i wrote above post yesterday,at midnight i had this clear vision of nityavrindavan with complete tattva darshan.

Hari bol !! Amazing ! shat shat praNAm

Shri KrushNa Govind Hare MurAre he nAth nArAyaN VAsudeva ~
Govinda Damodara Ma ~ ~ dhaveti ~

[/quote]

Pranam Smaranam ji,koti pranam and koti khyama bhakhya. i am too small adham in front of you. i understand your greatness and also got so many thing right for me. hoipe will be blessed by Sri-RADHAMADHAVA AND his beloved bhakta like you always.

harekrishna.

[anadi]

pranam Anadi ji,
have you read the Sadhna of BAMDAV in vedas. and are you aware of Basisthade4va"s sadhna with (Stri"m) badhu sadhna ?

Dandavat,
Your writing points on things, that might be right. Let's take them under scrutiny.
I will start with your first, for me uninteligible allegations:

1. I`ve never heard of a person called BAMDAV (can you put his name in Harward Kyoto transliteration?); would you be so kind to point out, where in the vedas is recounted his sadhana, so that I can read it there?
2. Could you explain where is described "Basisthade4va"s sadhna" (sadhana of Vasistha Muni?), you meant herein?
3. What is the meaning of badhu sadhna (with Stri`m?) and where is described.

[smaranam]

Pranam Smaranam ji,koti pranam and koti khyama bhakhya. i am too small adham in front of you. i understand your greatness and also got so many thing right for me. hoipe will be blessed by Sri-RADHAMADHAVA AND his beloved bhakta like you always.

harekrishna.

AnirvanJi please , are you kidding ? I am an insignificant ant, actually just an atom on His Toenail. I only hang out with Him, that is all - and that too purely by His Grace and Mercy. Just see **HIS** greatness and generosity - that He can come down to relate to us - someone as insignificant as me, and become our whatever ! He is infinite and continues to give give and give eternally and not simply sustain our breath, walking and talking. He speaks sweet words and shows us something that is unbelievable and that the world contradicts.
He PrANEshwar ! He KrushNa MadhusUdanA ~

I learn from you also, thank you - all of you are my shiksha Gurus and many of you are probably sick of me already.

praNAm

Govinda Damodara Madhaveti ~

[anirvan]

Dandavat,
Your writing points on things, that might be right. Let's take them under scrutiny.
I will start with your first, for me uninteligible allegations:

1. I`ve never heard of a person called BAMDAV (can you put his name in Harward Kyoto transliteration?); would you be so kind to point out, where in the vedas is recounted his sadhana, so that I can read it there?
2. Could you explain where is described "Basisthade4va"s sadhna" (sadhana of Vasistha Muni?), you meant herein?
3. What is the meaning of badhu sadhna (with Stri`m?) and where is described.

pranam Anadi ji,

sorry,lots of spelling mistake from my side...

Its Vamadev...rishi who has worshiped God as wife. and about his is mentioned in Rigveda -mandala 4 and and lots of compositions in Rigveda are by him.

Vasistha rishi has worshiped this Goddess as Tara.his first mistake was he had no form in his worship and he did it with dasa mahavidya Tara.andthats why lost millions of years and cursed the Badhu-bija to be nirjiva (dead).

i dont have exact references at present but i can provide once i go to my home as i am staying far away. its mostly in tantras. you can refer these in tara sadhna tantras.

Badhu bija is actually EKAKHSARI MANTRA OF Parambrahma swarupini Tara and is meant to be worshped to get her as wife. most likely the bija is : sthring ".

this is the mantra Nigamananda found in dream and after tedious search found Maha sadhaka BAMAKHEPA of tarapeetha who taught him the sadhna. you can find so many literature about bamakhepa.

nigamananda in one night able to get Maha tara to bless him being his wife and the Badhu bija became curse free. but Tara was not accesible to him as he wanted as she told him that he has not attained SIVA-SWAROOP. thats the reason he became vedantika sannyasi and jnana sadhna.

i will definitely give relevant references.

you can also goole about his previous birth as maha tantrika brahmananda giri of 16th century.

[anadi]

Its Vamadev...rishi who has worshiped God as wife. and about his is mentioned in Rigveda -mandala 4 and and lots of compositions in Rigveda are by him.

dandavat,

I looked in the Rigveda, in the fourth Chapter, and only in the 16-th Hymn I found something about Vamadeva,
but that has nothing to do with any sadhana in which he would have "worshiped God as wife":

4.16.16-19 Indra
…
"16 Call we for you that Indra, prompt to listen, him who hath done so much for men's advantage;
Who, Lord of envied bounty, to a singer like me brings quickly booty worth the capture.
17 When the sharp-pointed arrow, O thou Hero, flieth mid any conflict of the people,
When, Faithful One, the dread encounter cometh, then be thou the Protector of our body.
18 Further the holy thoughts of Vamadeva be thou a guileless Friend in fight for booty.
We come to thee whose providence protects us: wide be thy sway for ever for thy singer.
19 O Indra, with these men who love thee truly, free givers, Maghavan, in every battle,
May we rejoice through many autumns, quelling our foes, as days subdue the nights with splendour."

Could you please try to look more precisely; in the fourth mandala there is nothing like that you say about Vamadeva,
or if you think, I couldn't get it, and is still there, please help and give the lines.

[anadi]

The philosophy of your Gurudeva seems to say that
we jiva-shakti may become the eternal enjoyer of the eternal lady-lovers of the Supreme Lord in category Radha tattva, or Her own expansions (as per Gaudiya tradition) the Lakshmis in the Vaikuntha (spiritual) worlds – Laxmis who may also be seen as indirect expansions of the Lord (Shaktiman) as His consorts.
These consorts are God as women.
In your conception it seems that we- jivas may enjoy the consorts of the Supreme Lord.
As much as I know, shastras speak about this as beeing an idea of the demons:
Ravana wanted Sita, Sankachuda (Kamsa) wanted Radha... and so on.


Which Goddess did Vasistha worship as ... Tara?
From Rig-Veda it cannot be seen any idea that makes Vamadev a worshiper of God as his wife, so that I could conclude Tara would be … that wife… as you put it:

Its Vamadev...rishi who has worshiped God as wife. and about his is mentioned in Rigveda -mandala 4 and and lots of compositions in Rigveda are by him.

Vasistha rishi has worshiped this Goddess as Tara.