Krodha or anger...

[sunyata07]

Namaste,

What is krodha (anger)? How does it arise and why is it such a powerful emotion? What do the scriptures say about it and what it really means? Yajvan-ji once posted a thread on the topic of bhaya (fear), and we all discussed what we thought it was, where it arose from, what its purpose was, etc. But what can be said of anger?

This idea has been on my mind a lot, lately. Mostly because I have noticed I am becoming more and more a perpetrator of it, it shames me to say. It is so easy to become carried away with anger. They say fear is infectious and spreads easily, but my honest opinion is that I think krodha is just as corrupting, if not even more damaging than bhaya. That is not to say anger is not a natural response. I think many of us would admit that we do get angry from time to time, even if it's not good to get carried away with it. Fear seems to be a defensive response, an instinctual base urge to protect oneself from harm or loss. Whereas the consequences of anger - or even rage, is evident in the destruction and the himsa it generates for others and oneself as it disturbs peacefulness and calmness of mind. Where do you think this kind of emotion is generated?

On the other hand, it is said divine anger is not the same as mere anger. The former is said to be a cleansing, sanitising, scouring force which removes great evils. Clearly then, it is not the same as a man who has lost his temper and gives into shouting and stamping his feet in annoyance. It is interesting to note that when once is very angry, the physical response shows all the similar physiological response of fear: hands shaking, rapid breathing, high blood pressure, tension in the limbs, and sometimes sweating.

Also, what is your opinion about expressing anger? Does it relieve stress? One article I was reading the other day in the newspaper claims that scientists have found that swearing somehow manages to relieve pain when one receives an injury. There has also been much research to indicate that blowing steam can actually be good for you, but obviously, it's not good to get into a habit of giving into your anger too easily.

I'll share more of my thoughts later. What are some of your opinions on this? Do you often find yourself giving in to your anger too easily?

Om namah Shivaya

[c.smith]

Hari Om!

Anger often raises its ugly head when our ego's wants, desires, demands and expectations aren't met. It's an intoxicant! How to reduce anger then? Reduce our ego, or better yet, reduce our desires! (?)

Personally I can't remember the last time I got angry. My mind always seems to find a way to turn a negative into a positive, or at least a neutral. As I've learned in my career, there's a nice way to say everything, and I try to extend that to my thinking as well. Please don't get me wrong - I'm no "saint" by any means - perhaps I've just been fortunate enough to avoid some really bad bouts or even severe irritations lately.

In terms of expressing anger to relieve stress? I'm not a big advocate. Yes, it is probably helpful, but does it resolve the issue that put it there in the first place? Let's look at the bigger picture if we're going to make the change needed to grow spiritually. I realize however that some people just aren't in that space or may not agree with me. So be it.

I'm not clear what you mean when you mention "Divine Anger". Could you enlighten me? When I think of the Divine, I automatically think of the Divine Mother and then her Divine love which even if it would be anger would still be for my benefit, thus still a divine form of love. Is this even close?

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Sunyata:

I'M SO MAD I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS!!!

Because anger is in the emotional realm beyond logic, it is kind of hard to discuss. When it wells up, usually we are taken off guard, surprised at it even.

I think c. smith made some astute comments regarding loss of control and ego.

Back when I was younger, I used to get angry far more often. In fact marital spats lead both myself and Ganga to the shrine room to meditate on it, and try to figure it out. There are a couple of things I learned from that. One was that there are situations when one is predisposed: tired being one, stress from work another, or other situations like PMS, that were far more conducive to either or both of us being angry.

From observing many children at my job, and also looking in a mirror, it also boiled down to selfishness a lot. When one's own selfish needs aren't met, anger can be the result. This can be in many facets of life such as feeling no one is listening to your point on a Hindu discussion forum, or an outcome from many years of building resentment (volcano effect).

The students I observed often had mitigating factors such as awful home lives where the anger was really meant for a parent, but came out at school towards other children. The sense of having no power at all is a powerful one. There were also cases that were clearly hormonal imbalances or medical problems. These usually garnered professional help.

Another facet is like karma, it isn't always clear who you're really mad at; sometimes it is just yourself. This makes for more confusion.

For me personally, it boils down to finding the cause, avoiding such circumstances, and then finding strategies that indeed work for you. On our recent trip, I occasionally got frustrated with traffic or navigating through strange American cities. Sometimes I found the first safe spot to pull over to calm down and read the map.

But the good thing is that it is a challenge for one's will, and once steps are made to train the mind for some degree of control over it, it is empowering and builds confidence for becoming a better person.

Hope my rambling was of some use.

Aum Namasivaya

[NayaSurya]

As a child, I developed triggers. Seeing two beings hell bent on killing each other and the children, made me hate arguments...I would always try to calm others and sort it out before someone killed us.

Even to this day...I am compelled to come and try to help. Though I have learned to stop this through thinking it out.

Because my fuse is extremely long and winding, I don't think in my life I have been to the point of sweating or shaking but perhaps a handfull of times...if that. In fact, arguments and anger make me very sad.

But, I have something helpfull which always helps me figure out how to move past that. I always ask..."What is my portion of this? What is the true reason for my feeling this way?"

This helps so very much to never lose control.

Now, this does not mean I do not yell for children to come out of the road and there is this internet meme where this man in the projects is talking about how there was a "bed intruder" in his sister's room and I will often talk in that accent and tell my oldest son (in jest) "you are just SO dumb fo' rale!(for real)."

With teenage boys I have to be very firm...they have to learn to be moral by example and direction. There is a LOT of anger in a teenage boy!

You have to teach them how to redirect and discover the true reasons.

Everyday some moment will arise to teach them all how to live better and control the animal. I tell them that the body is the animal..it has urges, violent tendency and harsh emotions....but we are not this body anymore than the driver is the car...it is up to us to prove our divinity every moment.

On this I do often fail myself.

I still use some slang words which others call "curse words" here. But, most of those words were banned by the christians here for one reason or another. I was raised on a military base and those words were used creatively, not angrily.

But, over the years it just gets less and less as I have replaced them with foods...Cheese and crackers once was jesus christ....and "scared the heck(ll) out of me became "Scared the beans outta me."

So the kids get foods and not colorful language now mostly.

What if everyone you met suddenly became Shiva? Even the ones cutting you off at the stop light? Or the teacher who sends noah's ark bible scripture book home with your very impressionable seven year old child?

Anger is the last thing you feel towards these Precious Beings.

There is a wonderful movie call Water Boy...I so love this movie...I can do all the lines in the accent. One time Adam Sandler says to the coach who is very angry, afraid and outright petrified of another coach to look at him and imagine someone he could never be afraid of...to which the coach looks over and imagines a cute baby on the head of the other coach.

Sounds silly, perhaps even too simple...but it works.

Close your eyes and know those eyes lead back to Beloved.

Anger will dissolve so quickly if your heart knows this Beautiful Truth<3

[devotee]

Namaste Sunyata,

What is krodha (anger)? How does it arise and why is it such a powerful emotion? What do the scriptures say about it and what it really means? Yajvan-ji once posted a thread on the topic of bhaya (fear), and we all discussed what we thought it was, where it arose from, what its purpose was, etc. But what can be said of anger?

This idea has been on my mind a lot, lately. Mostly because I have noticed I am becoming more and more a perpetrator of it, it shames me to say. It is so easy to become carried away with anger. They say fear is infectious and spreads easily, but my honest opinion is that I think krodha is just as corrupting, if not even more damaging than bhaya. That is not to say anger is not a natural response. I think many of us would admit that we do get angry from time to time, even if it's not good to get carried away with it. Fear seems to be a defensive response, an instinctual base urge to protect oneself from harm or loss. Whereas the consequences of anger - or even rage, is evident in the destruction and the himsa it generates for others and oneself as it disturbs peacefulness and calmness of mind. Where do you think this kind of emotion is generated?

On the other hand, it is said divine anger is not the same as mere anger. The former is said to be a cleansing, sanitising, scouring force which removes great evils. Clearly then, it is not the same as a man who has lost his temper and gives into shouting and stamping his feet in annoyance. It is interesting to note that when once is very angry, the physical response shows all the similar physiological response of fear: hands shaking, rapid breathing, high blood pressure, tension in the limbs, and sometimes sweating.

Also, what is your opinion about expressing anger? Does it relieve stress? One article I was reading the other day in the newspaper claims that scientists have found that swearing somehow manages to relieve pain when one receives an injury. There has also been much research to indicate that blowing steam can actually be good for you, but obviously, it's not good to get into a habit of giving into your anger too easily.

I'll share more of my thoughts later. What are some of your opinions on this? Do you often find yourself giving in to your anger too easily?

Lord Krishna says in BG :

"Dhyayato vishnyanpunshah sangasteshupajayte,
Sangaat Sanjaayate Kaamah, Kaamaat krodhobhijaayate |
Krodhatbhavati Sammohah Sammohat Smritirbhramah Smritibransat Buddhinaso Buddhinasat PRaNashayati" ||


===> Harbouring thoughts of sensual desires, attachment towards sensual desires arise, attachment with these desires gives rise to sensual desires. From desire (when the fulfilment of desires is threatened by any act, person or situation), anger arises. The anger gives rise to delusive attachment, delsuive attachment gives rise to destruction of smriti (memory of knowledge that helps in discriminating between good and bad), destruction of smriti, intellect (the power of discrimination) is destroyed & by intellect destruction, (the angry person) goes to destruction.

..................................

Anger is a derived emotion which sets in on non-fulfilment of some of our desires or an undesirable action by someone towards us to resist such a happening of either of the above two. Anger is bad ... it leads to our own destruction but supression of anger is not good either. Whenever anger arises, we should start thinking logically and critically .... what is the basic thing attainment of which is threatened & giving rise to this anger ? Is anger the way to achieve what I want ? Do I really need what I want ? Will this anger result in something good at the end ? etc...

I don't believe that anger is always bad. Sometimes, it is the only effective way to control the situation. However, the anger should be used effectively by keeping it within our logical control so that it is used as an effective tool. The anger should not be allowed to control us. Again, by logically thinking, it can be realised that there is rarely an occasion when use of anger is necessary. Most of the times, there are better ways to do it (to bring the desired change in situation/person).

The logical thinking is an effective antidote to anger. We should avoid acting when we are in grip of anger. Starting the process of logical thinking takes away the irrationality hidden behind the anger which fuels the anger. It helps in mananging the situation effectively when we are calm and better disposed to manage a bad situation.

OM

[Obelisk]

I think both bhaya (fear) and krodha (anger) were, from an evolutionary perspective, originally ingrained into us for benefitial purposes. Fear acts as a warning signal for a known danger and helps us avoid it, and anger could provide a motivation for achieving harder goals, in tough situations (for example, a guy challenges that you can't ace an exam, and you work hard to do just that!). It causes various physiological changes including release of adrenaline into the blood, higher rate of metabolism and better utilization of energy. However, both of these could be of great danger when they go out of control - fear becomes paranoia, and anger becomes rage at small issues. On the whole, I'd say the negatives far exceed any positives in case of anger.

Personally I do admit getting irritated by some things occasionally, but I almost never lose my temper... the last time it happened was about two years ago when a person seriously (I really mean seriously) crossed the line with me. I wasn't really so interested in spirituality back then, but after I calmed down, it got me thinking - was what I did right? How am I better in any way than this guy if I behave the same way as him? Gandhiji said, "nobody can offend you without your permission." It ultimately comes down to the choice we make, I guess - to absorb the stimulus and allow anger to take possession, or not receive it at all - like a stone bouncing off a metal plate.

I read that article in my newspaper as well, that swearing can be a good way to relieve stress from anger. But I wonder if it really is the solution? At best, it seems like a painkiller which will temporarily subdue the efferent receptors, but never cure the condition itself; and after a while, addiction can become dangerous and unhealthy (unfortunately, it's only a small step from using it as a medicine!). I'd rather root out the issue from the core - like I mentioned above, I think that it is the perception of offense to the self ("I"-ness), which is a major cause for anger. We should try to concentrate on the Self instead; I read a good analogy once - if a person accidentally bites their tongue while eating food, will they be angry with their teeth? If someone asked them what happened, would they say "I accidentally bit my tongue", or "My teeth bit my tongue"? Obviously they'd say the former. Is it not because they think both the teeth and tongue are a part of themselves? Similarly when we see Oneness in everything around us, it is easier to not let anger take over us. It's important to control it, as it's damaging not only spiritually but also physiologically - it causes all sorts of problems like hypertension, heart attack, etc. Like the Buddha said, "You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger." Another good quote is - "Be patient in one moment of anger, and you'll escape a hundred days of sorrow."

I agree that Divine anger is a completely different concept than normal human behaviour. I think it was explained well in the "Wrathful Krishna" thread. One of my favourites is when Hiranyakashipu is raging and storming at Prahlada, which is at best a display of weakness and arrogance. Once the Supreme wrathful form of Lord Narasimha emerges from the pillar and HK furiously rushes forward to do battle, he vanishes into the Lord's effulgence like an insect disappearing into a fire. I think there's a great spiritual message in there.

I wish it was as easy in practice as it sounds in theory... one moment I'm talking great philosophy, the next moment someone spills water over my homework and I might go ballistic at them!

[anirvan]

@Sunyata, thanks for starting a really good post.

most of the things has been said.
Devotee ji has elaborated the cause of anger and how its important to keep it under control logically and not becoming it"s pray.

Obelisk also has read wise words about rationality of anger and its biological root.

I will add a new perspective to above points.

Fear and anger are two different forms of same PRANA (the dynamic energy aspect of chitta-antahkarana) but similar. ANGER arise when mind sense that offence has started. Fear is arise in anticipation of offence.

both will invoke similar reaction by acting on appropriate chakras and nadis which in physical level is on AUTONOMIC nervous system---so there will be adrenaline rush which act on heart,muscles,skin,hair follicles etc.medically called reaction to fright and flight.

So ultimately our whole satta/mind/chitta/antahkaran/consciousness is reached at a particular state/frequency.

So our chitta/mind/intellect reacted after a stimuli/condition/provocation reached into it through either 5 receptor senses.

And our chitta reacts depending upon it"s threshold level to react,and Reaction time.

So THRESHOLD AND REACTION TIME crucial for our anger and it"s expression.

Naturally if we are in Rajah dominant state,our threshold will be less and we are prone to be angry with trivial things.

Reaction time depends upon Logic. how much we are practicing in manan routine. peoples apply different means time to increase the reaction time so that our logic get over the control over our anger...like counting 10 to 1, distraction ,leaving the places etc etc.

concluding above...its the cushion effect of our knowledge and state of consciousness that acts to assimilate anything provocation thrown at us.if surface is hard,a ball thrown at will rebounce,but if very soft ,ball will lie on it without bounce back.

we have to increase that cushion in us to be tolerant,ahimsaka and what not?
there is no over the counter way to tackle.its long term,holistic approach which is same as spiritual practices that makes us a divine human.

Sattva state of mind,pranayam, sattika food,sattika company, creative habits to vent negative energy on regular basis are all ultimately helps.

still life sometimes brings such circumstances where we are left with anger and nothing else. and finally we should not be bother too much for our anger but try to learn from each episodes and do spiritual practces.

while writing this post,i have screamed twice on my assistant

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I don't believe that dealing with anger can always be done via logic. Sometimes it may work, but not with the anger we term rage.

The mind consists of 3 basic strata: emotional, intellectual and superconscious.

Emotional is where all emotions are. When awareness is flowing here, or within this area, there is little logic. It includes such things as puppy love, fear, anger, elation, and all that good stuff. It is when awareness is moving in the ida current predominantly.

Intellectual is the area of logic and reason, and corresponds to the pingala current. Most people spend most of their time here.

The superconscious is the intuitive mind, and corresponds to the sushumna current at the center of the spine where kundalini can rise. It includes religious emotion, bhakti, intuition, insight, and the conscience. Great munis such as Ramana Maharshi had awareness there all the time, and hence there was no room for intellect or emotion. He just spoke out from direct cognition, from beyond reason.

So awareness isn't moved that easily. Will is the key, yes, but when in a particular state of not even being aware of awareness itself, such as anger, it becomes difficult. Those of us who have been there know all too well the difficulty of shifting awareness out of it. Besides that, each individual mind, although a portion of the Mind of God, operates independently, and differently. So, as they say, different strokes fro different folks: nature walks, counts to 10, deep breathing, focusing, redirecting awareness, etc.

The example of visualising a positive face above an angry face, or the person you`re mad at is one psychologists use. Trying to use logic sometimes just makes you angrier, because the logic may very well support your anger. The different stratas of mind could be likened to tea and coffee. You don`t make a better tea by studying coffee.

More rant... I apologise

Aum Namasivaya

[NayaSurya]

Trying to use logic sometimes just makes you angrier, because the logic may very well support your anger. The different stratas of mind could be likened to tea and coffee. You don`t make a better tea by studying coffee.

More rant... I apologise

Aum Namasivaya

So so so true, especially with our own children or family. We have been put here and entrusted with new Beings for the sole purpose to teach them and some times that means we will be upset with them...and they truly deserve it. I feel Shiva depends and expects us to do this duty....just as Arjuna had to face his own beloved friends and family.

Sometimes we have a duty to be angry and to show firmness.

Recently my own son sat in front of me and said..."I don't care." when I put him on restriction. Here we use the laws of our country to discipline...so first time you get verbal warning for petty offense and second time verbal warning and some extra chore, third time it's full on confinement along with KP duty.

This child is a very hard learner, as a child he tried to "fly" down a flight of 13 steep stairs over and over again until finally he cracked his head so badly it scared him into understanding. Despite locking the door or gating the stairs this child would sneak and wait for an opportunity to run to them...it was VERY frustrating and frightning because he would bleed profusely.

Finally he got the idea after this severe injury and never did it again...but this is the way of this child. Always with the hard lessons.

I got very angry with this child who stood in front of me and said..."I don't care." When I place him on full confinement and extra duty. It took everything I had not to wack him upside his beautiful head. But, that's where Shiva comes in...I know who ShayeShaye really is, despite this foolish mouth of his...and I know Shiva is expecting me to help this one so foolish be more his true Self.

So I said...okay double that time...and he said "Whatever." and I said..."tripple it....wanna go for the whole month?"

This question was met with silence...sweet silence that comes from a child who is now getting it.

This beautiful child worked in the flower gardens and planted grass seed for the past month...even helped me organize the shoe closet(a monumental thing for 8 children's shoes to get organized )

Now, I could have gotten firey angry as the animal urged me to...and I could have beaten this child for his insolence and gotten the same effect.

But, a day would have come when this child would be stronger than I ...as he is already six foot tall and an inch over me...and the child beaten who had not learned the lesson of holding his mouth and self restraint would be able to beat me down.

Beating a child in anger would bring such a moment of karma to me.

So many many reasons why parents have to learn to control this beast for the sake of these Precious Portions about our ankles!

[charlebs]

I see it as your heart shakra rotating too hard

I always need strict rules otherwise it becomes black before my eyes (happens with lots of autistic people)

it's the feeling of dissapointment and pure unmight, while still believing you can achieve your goal which is fallible