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Thread: Sex of Atma

  1. #1
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    Sex of Atma

    Dear all,
    I was thinking we can't say 'Atma' is male or female then how can the supposedly Paramatma (union of all souls) incase of Dvaita or Visistadvaita philosophy be male God..be Krsna (for ISKCON) and Visnu (for Vaisnavas). Even the Supreme deity Shakti (for Shaktas) can't be the Paramatma or whatever similar term they use.

    Only Shivam with no qualities (sex in this context) can be the Absolute One

    What do you think?
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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    Re: Sex of Atma

    You are absolutely right .......

    Atma is beyond the mental realm.

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    Re: Sex of Atma

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    Dear all,
    I was thinking we can't say 'Atma' is male or female then how can the supposedly Paramatma (union of all souls) incase of Dvaita or Visistadvaita philosophy be male God..be Krsna (for ISKCON) and Visnu (for Vaisnavas). Even the Supreme deity Shakti (for Shaktas) can't be the Paramatma or whatever similar term they use.

    Only Shivam with no qualities (sex in this context) can be the Absolute One

    What do you think?
    Pranam,

    Paramatma has also no sex. its our dominant emotional component that view it as male or female.

    Shakta sees paramatma as mother of entire creation.she is mother of vishnu,sankar,brahma.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

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    Re: Sex of Atma

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    Dear all,
    I was thinking we can't say 'Atma' is male or female then how can the supposedly Paramatma (union of all souls) incase of Dvaita or Visistadvaita philosophy be male God..be Krsna (for ISKCON) and Visnu (for Vaisnavas). Even the Supreme deity Shakti (for Shaktas) can't be the Paramatma or whatever similar term they use.

    Only Shivam with no qualities (sex in this context) can be the Absolute One

    What do you think?
    your question is based on the misconception that vaishnavas see vishnu the same way you do.
    for me as a vaishnava the question would be more: why would you think shiva, who is descripted as male and having a wife, think to be neither male nor female and therefore fit to be paramatma? only vishnu, who is free of all material qualities, like bodily identification and therfore gender, can be paramatma.

    you're right, we cannot say that 'atma' is male or female, therefore paramatma can be neither, too. and whether shaivite, vaishnavite or shakta that is their concept of their own supreme personality.

    also the view of vishnu or krishna (and maybe even shiva) as "male" is not as much based on sex, i.e. a bodily concept, but more on gender, i.e. having qualities that WE would see as either male or female. the most prominent one being the "ishvara" aspect. because we see god as the supreme ruler, we assume him as male because being a rule is a male thing. but that is a limited, worldly view.

    thanks for your inspiration to think about these matters and to remember the lord!

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    Re: Sex of Atma

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    Pranam,

    Paramatma has also no sex. its our dominant emotional component that view it as male or female.

    Shakta sees paramatma as mother of entire creation.she is mother of vishnu,sankar,brahma.
    anirvan,
    We both are on the same page...when Paramatma has no sex, how can it be father or mother..it has to be both Siva and Shakti together.
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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    Re: Sex of Atma

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    anirvan,
    We both are on the same page...when Paramatma has no sex, how can it be father or mother..it has to be both Siva and Shakti together.
    you need to stop trying to understand spiritual things with material terms. then you will understand.

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    Re: Sex of Atma

    namaste everyone.

    I happened to read the following quote in a book today that probably has the answer to the query in the OP:

    धर्मः पुं रूपमाप्त्वा सकल जगतुपादान भावम् पिबर्ति ।
    स्त्री रूपं प्राप्य धिव्या भवति समहिषी स्वाश्रयस्यादिकर्तु: ॥

    dharmaH puM rUpamAptvA sakala jagatupAdAna bhAvam pibarti |
    strI rUpaM prApya dhivyA bhavati samahiShI svAshrayasyAdikartu: ||
    --Appaiya dIkShita, in his ratna-traya-parIkShA

    Dharma takes the form of a male and remains as the upAdAna-kAraNa--proximate cause, of all this world (vishvam viShNu, says the ViShNu sahasranAmam). Taking the female form (at the same time) it becomes the consort of the Adi-kartRu--Creator.

    It is thus understood that all the chetana--sentient, and achetana--insentient, beings of this jagat--world, are neuter in gender at the level of the substratum, in manifestation, both the Gods and the individual jIvas--selves/souls, take a gender. The difference is that in jIvas, the gender is singular and explicit, while in the gods, the male form that forms the consciousness is worshipped as a male god, and the female form that forms the shakti--power, of that male god is worshipped as his consort, both with different names and forms as the sampradAya--tradition, differs.

    The very purpose of creatiion and manifestation is dharma. While the gods are essentially forms of dharma, the dharmic form of jIvas is conditioned by their karma. Therefore, the samsAra--world process, itself is called dharma-chakra--wheel of dharma.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  8. #8

    Re: Sex of Atma

    Namaste SaidevoJi

    This may not align with all schools, but my understanding is, that the sentient beings, jeev, are feminine at the substratum / subtle level, because they are a part of Shakti (feminine) of the AdiPurusha (masculine).

    Jiva / jeev are tatastha-shakti , marginal potency, on the shore/fence between external [creative] material shakti (Sat - DurgA) and spiritual [bliss] potency/shakti (HlAdini, Anand - Radha/Lakshmi).

    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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    Re: Sex of Atma

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    anirvan,
    We both are on the same page...when Paramatma has no sex, how can it be father or mother..it has to be both Siva and Shakti together.
    You misquoted me.i just told that Shaktas view as mother like vaishnavs views as father.

    @SAIDEVO ji

    i completely agree with your post. Its sakhsi roopa and karta roop.
    when God is inactive,witness,only consciousness,then its called male part..siva.

    when active,engaged in creation ,its called shakti,the female part.

    But both are same and one.like two half part of a peas seed. either we are free to worship as mother or father.but after knowing paramatma completely one realize that its SIVA-SHAKTI,RADHA-KRISHNA,HARA-GAURI OR BRAHMAN.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  10. #10
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    Re: Sex of Atma

    Thanks everyone for your explanations. Saidevo it was clear enough.
    The dharma of the Absolute One takes the form of male and female.
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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