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Thread: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

  1. #1
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    Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    Why are the Shaiva puranas considered tamasic?

  2. #2

    Re: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    Namaste Divine Kala.

    Some (orthodox) Vaishnavas regard Shaiva Puranas as Tamasic, Shaivas certainly do not. At any rate Vaishnavas have designated Shaiva Puranas as such, so as to reaffirm the supremacy of Sri Vishnu, without degrading Shaiva Holy texts. Vaishnavas do not regard Shaiva Puranas and Agamas as inherently Tamasic themselves. They believe Shaiva Puranas were invented by Ved Vyasa, so as to offer an alternative moral religion for people of Tamasic nature who are not yet ready to accept the supremacy of Vishnu. Likewise, Vaishnavas do not regard Lord Shiva as being in the mode of Tamas, but in fact believe him to be the greatest devotee of Lord Vishnu.

    Of course to the Shaiva, the worship of Lord Shiva is for people in the nature of Tamas, Rajas, and Sattva, as well as enlightened beings (who are thus beyond the three material conditions).

    Jai Shiva Shankar!


  3. #3
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    Re: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Kala View Post
    Why are the Shaiva puranas considered tamasic?
    They are not considered Tamasic by Hindus in general. Yes, if you are poisoned by the canards spread by ISKCON or similar Vaishnava traditions then anything is possible.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #4

    Re: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    They are not considered Tamasic by Hindus in general. Yes, if you are poisoned by the canards spread by ISKCON or similar Vaishnava traditions then anything is possible.

    OM
    Namaste Devoteeji,

    I think BoaBobTree put it in excellently, pleasant speech.

    I don't know if you will thalk tho me anymo'e but ...
    following was neither ISKCON nor other VaishNav tradition , straight from Shrila VyasDev via the hands of a good Shaiva (whose labels have apparantly dissolved) :

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    words
    • purāṇa - compiled by vyāsa-ji to address 5 topics (pañcalakṣaṇa)
      • purāṇas are 18 in number (the major ones)
      • Gouped in 3 divisions
        • rājasa exalting brahmā
        • sāttvika exalting viṣṇu
        • tāmasa exalting śiva
    puraṇa - is the ocean, the sea.
    pūraṇa - filling , completing , satisfying causing , effecting
    Jay Jay Shiv Shankar Bholenath Mahadev
    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  5. #5

    Re: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    Hi, the ISKCON organization can be found here in my country, furtheremore that is the only well-known 'hindu' sect here. So when I began to read about Eastern religious, I mostly found books published by ISKCON's organization.

    In such books Saivism is written about as a religion of lower level, Shiva is said to be tamasic etc etc.
    So whenever it comes to reading a book, check who it was written and published by...

    Since I have known more about ISKCON stuffs - I never was a member of it and nor would be (!) I realized that their teachings are very 'specific' (I don't wish to use harsh words...). Then I turned toward the advaita and Shaiva path. When a friend of mine belonging to ISKCON got to know this, she began to tell bad things about shaiva teachings in disrespectful ways... I just smiled at her and left. I have nothing to do with arguing with them, I rather spend my time on reading other literatures of and about Shaivism.

    So be careful whose books you read...
    This is a suggestion based on my experience, nothing more and nothing less.

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    Re: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    I know that I should not let it bother me but it... offends me, I suppose. I feel insulted everytime I am told I am worshipping the wrong god (to be honest, this has never happened with Indian Hindus but seems to happen a LOT with people from ISKCON) or it is implied that the form I worship is somehow less then another form.

    You do not see Shaivas running around saying 'Visnu is a demigod! Visnu is beneath Shiva and always subordinate unto him!' rather you see us saying 'Shiva is Visnu's greatest devotee and Visnu is likewise Shiva's - they are one and the same'. So it's quite easy, I believe, for a Shaiva to worship Visnu as their Ishta Devata but much more difficult for a Vaishnava to do likewise (my personal belief).

  7. #7

    Re: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Kala View Post
    (to be honest, this has never happened with Indian Hindus but seems to happen a LOT with people from ISKCON)
    That is because the saMskAr and saNskruti is central and embedded in the Indian Hindus over the generations and through society - peaceful co-existence, taking care not to hurt others as the paramAtmA resides in all hearts - "it is none of my business" thinking, embracing all, and acceptance. Moreover, due to "living" Sanatan Dharma and with that saNskruti (culture) all around them, they do not focus too much on shastra while socializing.

    This is how it was meant to be - Sanatan Dharma.

    It is evident when many Indian Hindus cannot get themselves to talk about vegetarianism - so as to not hurt fellow-beings.

    Yet, when someone talks to you like that, tactless as they may sound, know that it is out of concern and compassion for you as a jeev, from their POV. Please look at them as an instrument of karma - to help learn and practice detachment.

    Jai Shri KrushNa

    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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    Re: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    Namaste Smaranam,

    Puranas are written for less evolved souls & when you read different Puranas you don't know which Purana to bank on for deciding which is the Supreme Godhead. There the Shruti comes to rescue. Let's see what Rudra Hridaya Upanishad says :

    Namaste Smaranam,

    The Puranas are written keeping people following different paths in mind. All the Puranas don't indicate that only Vishnu or only Shiva is the supreme. The deity to which the Purana is dedicated to, that particular Purana tries to show that that deity is the supreme. So, Puranas are the diluted Truth for the Bhakti Marga & not the absolute Truth. So, wherever there is doubt, there is provision to take help of Shruti to resolve the issue.

    If you read the Rudra Hridaya Upanishad, it is the Rudra who is supreme :

    Who is the real God of gods? In whom are all these existences established? By worshipping whom, can I please the Devas in whole?
    Hearing these words, Sri Veda Vyasa replied thus:
    Rudra is the embodiment of all Devas. All devas are merely different manifestations of Sri Rudra Himself. On the right side of Rudra, there is the sun, then the four-headed Brahma, and then three Agnis (fires). On the left side, there exist Sri Umadevi, and also Vishnu and Soma (moon).
    Uma Herself is the form of Vishnu. Vishnu Himself is the form of the moon. Therefore, those who worship Lord Vishnu, worship Siva Himself. And those who worship Siva, worship Lord Vishnu in reality. Those who envy and hate Sri Rudra, are actually hating Sri Vishnu. Those who decry Lord Siva, decry Vishnu Himself.

    Rudra is the generator of the seed. Vishnu is the embryo of the seed. Siva Himself is Brahma and Brahma Himself is Agni. Rudra is full of Brahma and Vishnu. The whole world is full of Agni and Soma. The masculine gender is Lord Siva. The feminine gender is Sri Bhavani Devi. All the mobile and immobile creation of this universe, is filled up with Uma and Rudra. The Vyakta is Sri Uma, and the Avyakta is Lord Siva. The combination of Uma and Sankara is Vishnu.

    Hence everybody should prostrate to Sri Maha Vishnu with great devotion. He is the Atman. He is the Paramatman. He is the Antaratman. Brahma is the Antaratman. Siva is the Paramatman. Vishnu is the Eternal Atman of all this universe. This whole creation of Svarga, Martya and Patala Lokas is a big tree. Vishnu is the top portion (branches) of this tree. Brahma is the stem. The root is Lord Siva.

    The effect is Vishnu. The action is Brahma. The cause is Siva. For the benefit of the worlds. Rudra has taken these three forms.
    Yes, in some places, Shiva is depicted as having Tamas-pradhan guna due to his ugra-rupa but that is the superficial depiction of Shiva for less developed souls. Shiva is attributeless ... beyond all Gunas. The root cause of everything that Is has to be attributeless because that is the Turiya state of Brahman.

    What Yajvan has noted is correct from Vaishnava point of view but not from Shaiva point of view. For Shaivites, Lord Shiva is Supreme & Nirguna ... beyond all attributes.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  9. #9

    Re: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    Devotee Ji !

    I was not expecting you to misunderstand that post

    When i quoted YajvanJi's post as saying VedVyas divided the 18 mahapurANs is three categories - which is a known fact ,

    That means THE PURAN is catering to a sAdhak who wants to OVERCOME TamoguNa. Who says Shiva is of TamoGuNa ? Certainly not me. He presides over Tamas, irradicates Tamas, fishes out souls to follow a natural path so it is not against the flow.

    That being said, with society groups and congregations, of course all puranas are going to have readers from all three predominant guNas at least in today's world.

    Even a toddler can tell that there is a sattvic or guNAteet Shaiva or a sattvic VaishNav, rajasic VaishNav etc.
    Aspiring VaishNavs are first to find tamas within themselves and the last to call themselves VaishNav.

    I would be the last to say "bad" things about Shambhu ShankarA, as the kind Lord ShyAmsundar has shown me years ago on RAm Navami - how Shiva and VishNu are each other's soul - they are ONE .... and yet individual forms.

    praNAm
    Last edited by smaranam; 05 May 2011 at 05:43 PM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  10. #10

    Re: Shaiva Puranas Tamasic?

    They are not considered Tamasic by Hindus in general. Yes, if you are poisoned by the canards spread by ISKCON or similar Vaishnava traditions then anything is possible.
    Namaste Devotee. These "similar Vaishnava traditions" actually include the bulk of orthodox Vaishnavism. Ramnuja, Madhvacharya, Nimbarkacharya, and Valabhacharya all regarded Vishnu as superior to Shiva. I don't know why ISKCON always gets signalled out as having overly secterian techings, when other Vaishnava sects teach the same.

    I know that I should not let it bother me but it... offends me, I suppose. I feel insulted everytime I am told I am worshipping the wrong god (to be honest, this has never happened with Indian Hindus but seems to happen a LOT with people from ISKCON) or it is implied that the form I worship is somehow less then another form.
    Let others think as they will. If you know Lord Shiva to be Parabrahman worship him as such, and do not pay head to the opinions of others. Your offense is simply a by-product of your devotion and love for Lord Shiva, so it is not necessarily a bad thing to be offended by those who belittle Lord Shiva. I just see no need to make a big fuss over it.

    You do not see Shaivas running around saying 'Visnu is a demigod! Visnu is beneath Shiva and always subordinate unto him!'
    Though not show cased as much, this view still exists amongst Shaivas. The renowned Shaiva Theologian Srikantha certainly regarded Shiva as superior to Vishnu, and traditionally the Shaiva Siddhanta school of Tamil Nadu has also tought the same.

    Personally I regard Shiva and Vishnu as being two different forms of the same supreme being, but this debate has gone on for thousands of years, and I see no resolve to it any time soon. Many Vaishnavas regard Shiva as Vishnu's greastest devotee,many Shaivas regard Vishnu as Shiva's greatest devotee, and Advaitans see the two as being one. We should learn to tolerate and accept these different views as having their own place in the Hindu tradition.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Om Namo Narayana

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