Buddhism without Beliefs Critiqued

[Sahasranama]

Buddhism Without Beliefs critiqued

Bhikkhu Punnadhammo

Stephen Batchelor's book, "Buddhism Without Beliefs" has attracted a lot of attention in Buddhist circles. In many respects, this is an important book. It may be seen as a lucid manifesto of a tendency in modern, western Buddhism that has been gaining ground in recent years. This is the kernel of a new school of modernized, rationalized Buddhism; in essence a Protestant Buddhism. While this tendency is seen as a welcome one by many, it is worth examining more closely to understand just what is being put forward.
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha107.htm

This was a very interesting article, a lot of what Bhikku Punnadhammo talks about here, applies as well to neo-vedanta and neo-yoga versus traditional Hinduism.

Other critiques:
http://jbe.gold.ac.uk/5/batch1.htm
http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com...t_beliefs.html

[Sahasranama]

There are three central beliefs in all the dharmic religions (Hindu, Jain, Buddhist).

1)The belief in reincarnation
2)The belief in karma
3)The belief in final emancipation (mukti, nirvana, kaivalya)

We are indebted to the seers (rishi rina) for this knowledge which we cannot come to know of ourselves.

We take these elements out of faith without any logical proof. No Indian philosophy, except for the lokayatas (materialists) has ever challenged these ideas and no Indian philosopher has ever tried to deduce them logically or to respond satisfactory to the criticism from the lokayatas. That is why Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism are also belief systems (or religions). It is not just dogma, but it has also given reason for the spiritual practice of Indians and the development of Indian philosophy and religion.

The trend of the day is to have an aversion to everything religious. Religion has to serve our wellbeing in this life for the westerner. As long as meditation and chanting helps to reduce stress it is all good. But belief forms the basis of all Indian spiritual traditions and practices and gives a purpose beyond this life. Yuddhistira says in the Mahabharata that the most suprising thing on earth is that everyone sees their elders die, but still behave like they are never going to die themselves.. How to behave knowing that you will die depends largely on your beliefs, if you believe in karma and reincarnation, you will act differently in this life than if you believe you will be rewarded 72 virgins if you die in a suicide attack on infidels. Someone with a lack of belief in the afterlife will also act differently or rationalise their behavior differently.

[satay]

namaste sahas,
I don't think it is fair to say that there is no logical proof for at least 1 and 2 below. Look around you. Everything in nature reincarnates and works in a cyclic fashion so why not human life?

There are three central beliefs in all the dharmic religions (Hindu, Jain, Buddhist).

1)The belief in reincarnation
2)The belief in karma
3)The belief in final emancipation (mukti, nirvana, kaivalya)

We take these elements out of faith without any logical proof. No Indian philosophy, except for the lokayatas (materialists) has ever challenged these ideas and no Indian philosopher has ever tried to deduce them logically or to respond satisfactory to the criticism from the lokayatas. That is why Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism are also belief systems (or religions). It is not just dogma, but it has also given reason for the spiritual practice of Indians and the development of Indian philosophy and religion.

The trend of the day is to have an aversion to everything religious, but belief forms the basis of all Indian spiritual traditions and practices. We are indebted to the seers (rishi rina) for this knowledge which we come to know of ourselves.

[Sahasranama]

namaste sahas,
I don't think it is fair to say that there is no logical proof for at least 1 and 2 below. Look around you. Everything in nature reincarnates and works in a cyclic fashion so why not human life?

If I look around I do not see any logical proof for reincarnation or karma, this is a matter we have to accept on the basis of faith. I am not saying that this cannot be proven logically, but that has never been done in the history of Indian philosophy. With your statement about the cyclic fashion of nature, you are intuitively saying that reincarnation should be self evident, but you have not proven anything.

[Agnikan]

There are three central beliefs in all the dharmic religions (Hindu, Jain, Buddhist).

1)The belief in reincarnation
2)The belief in karma
3)The belief in final emancipation (mukti, nirvana, kaivalya)

We are indebted to the seers (rishi rina) for this knowledge which we cannot come to know of ourselves.

We take these elements out of faith without any logical proof.

Faith and logical proof are not the only sources of knowledge. There is also personal and interpersonal (social) experience, in particular, the experiences out-of-physical-body, past-life memory, and subtle-realm encounter, all of which might demonstrate the reality of reincarnation/rebirth, karma, or mukti, a demonstration free of dependence upon "faith" and "logic".

[Sahasranama]

We can categorise sources of knowledge in three groups (or more), but these are the main categories according the yoga sutras.

Pratyaksha, direct experience
Anumana, inference
Shabda, verbal testimony from the shashtras

There is also personal and interpersonal (social) experience, in particular, the experiences out-of-physical-body, past-life memory, and subtle-realm encounter, all of which might demonstrate the reality of reincarnation/rebirth, karma, or mukti, a demonstration free of dependence upon "faith" and "logic".

The problem is that these do not demonstrate anything if the person in question cannot differentiate between pratyaksha and viparayaya (invalid cognition), nor does it prove anything to someone who is not having that experience. Out of body experiences and past life experiences more often than not are indications of mental health problems. Without proper to tools to discern an experience, it would just be a matter of faith to trust that experience.