Boxing, Kickboxing, and MMA

[Friend from the West]

Hello and namaste,
I was wondering what the thoughts were concerning participants in Mixed Martial Arts?
Included with this question is the training of them only compared to the participation and viewing of them in a atmosphere that may include robust language. Thoughts on if for sport or if the discipline is pursued for purpose of the protection of people. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Rich

[Sahasranama]

I have trained some kickboxing, mma and kung fu. I have a lot of respect and admiration for martial arts training, but I have stopped doing it for a few reasons.

It's all a big joke in my opinion. If something really dangerous happens, you often cannot use these skills. You can even make the situation worse trying to fight. Some martial arts are nice to watch in the movies, but in real life you are better of trying to avoid fights. You can even go to jail if you happen to be a better fighter than your opponent. If you really are concerned about safety, maybe something like traditional Jiu Jitsu or Krav Maga could be helpful. MMA and kickboxing are ring sports and often useless outside the ring. Of course, someone who is in better physical shape has a much better change of winning any fight. There was a video of Arnold Schwarznegger stepping in a boxing match that escalated and he was totally in control of the professional boxer. Taekwando and Kung Fu as taught in the west are also big jokes in my opinion, maybe if you go to China you can find a place to learn real Kung Fu.

I also do not consider it my svadharma to train martial arts. If I were in law enforcement, training martial arts could greatly benefit performing my dharma. But I am not, so I am not going to put in hundreds of hours learning skills I am never going to use. Also, I was kidding myself that I was training martial arts for health. This is also a big joke, because it's easy to get hurt during sparring. People have lost their teeth, broken their backs, knees and necks, just from sparring with a partner. There are others ways to stay healthy and in shape.

I do not want to bash on martial arts. I still have a lot of respect for martial arts training. Personally, I have decided that it is not worth my time to train MMA, kickboxing, boxing or kung fu. If I ever do martial arts again, it's probably something like cardio kickboxing (for general fitness) or traditional Jiu Jitsu (for self defence). You'll have to decide for yourself.

Just to let you know, the founder of the dvaita school of thought, Madhvacharya was also a wrestler and a weightlifter. It shows that martial arts training is not totally incompatible with a spiritual/ religious lifestyle. India also has its fair share of martial arts which are unfortunately not taught in the west: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_martial_arts

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I remember back in the late 80s when wrestling was at it's peak, and the subsequent quelling of violence we teachers had to do practically on a daily basis because of it. We teachers saw the negative influence more than most.

I find the portrayal of loving sexuality on television far less offensive than violence, but the TV execs who are mostly Abrahamics, don't.

The Abrahamics see violence as okay, certainly there is no real concept like the ahimsa in Hinduism. So I see it (as portrayed in the west today) mostly as an extension of Abrahamic (Who cares about the other guy?) thinking.

Of course real martial arts from an Asiatic perspective is about self-defense, inner physical training, and lots of worthy ideas. But when power is put into the wrong hands (those who are not spiritually ready) then we see these deplorable outcomes like MMA today.

Aum Namasivaya

[Sahasranama]

In my opinion, if you are going to do martial arts, you'll have to do it from a female perspective. Women make better decisions when it comes to martial arts training. Men in general are often driven by their ego and want to act macho. (not always true though)

[Water]

Having been Law Enforcement and exposed to many different arts when I was young, I have to say.....

Almost all U.S. "MMA" is a joke. It is nothing but aggression and contest. Nearly none of the techniques in the primary focus of today's students have anything to do with ending a fight or protection.

If you have the opportunity to participate in Aikido or a good Tai Chi (the fighting art - not the breathing art it's usually presented as in the West) I would definitely suggest you try it.

Aikido, especially, is very beautiful. It isn't very popular as there aren't equivalents to "sparring" or competitions. The levels of respect and understanding are unparalleled in any other fighting art - and it's resolution to most situations result in avoiding serious injury to either party.

Tai Chi is more of an internal focus with external impact.

Judo and Jiu-Jitsu are a lot of fun, but often techniques that result in serious injury are the focus in addition to aggressive competition. If this is your interest, I suggest going to Aikido.

Capoeira is fun if you can find a group that is not interested in "fighting" but rather playing, overcoming challenge and exercise.

Western influenced Tae Kwon Do will probably not help you protect anyone and is quite impractical. Teachings usually include aggressive competition and "showy" exhibitions.

In my opinion, many of the arts aren't really "compatible" with Western bodies - most westerners are already pre-disposed to lower back and knee injuries. Muscle and ligament tears are common because of Western sitting habits and static exercises.

[Friend from the West]

Namaste and thanks for the responses so far. Awhile back Pietro shared some things that offered insight regarding these issues. In considering things further had the questions I posted. Definetly agree with comment regarding Aikido and at least pertaining to me, Western bodies (LOL).
If duty is to protect, continuing with boxing and kick boxing and some forms of martial arts such as Bando and Aikido (really compatible huh?) could be justified to some due to duty and being pure in mind about it. But if doing this, one interacts with others and assists them who may have different agendas and who participate in boxing and kickboxing matches (ring girls, cursing, sometimes alcohol, brain damage for sport) or MMA matches (ring girls, cursing, and brutality permitted by slow referees, etc.) would one who is participating for duty be complicit? These are issues now that exist with changing point of worldview.
I apologize if not articulating well and please do not hesitate to correct me on how I am seeing issues. I will learn from the responses.
Thanks.

[Visvamitra]

I think MMA is exciting to watch. Now some people may call it b.s. but the reason there are rules in the sport is to avoid serious injury. Training in it does help one to defend oneself. In MMA competition, biting, eye gouging, kneeing a downed opponent in the like are not allowed but the fighters know how to do these things they just cannot do them in the ring. You can see these people know how to maim body parts and the like and sometimes this does happen because even though there are rules to protect the participants you can still get hurt. Look at what Rhonda Rousey did to Meisha Tate. She destroyed her arm.

There used to be less rules in the UFC and no weight classes. The bigger man did not always win. UFC 1,2, and 4 were won by Royce Gracie. In UFC 4 he beat a man who weight almost 100 pounds more than him in the final. They used to fight multiple fights in one day then. However, sometimes the rules are broken and you see people do illegal things that are not allowed in the ring but which they know how to do and are useful in a fight.

Sometimes fights come down to matches and sometimes they go either way. There are plenty of street fights where MMA training can EASILY come in handy and save your neck. I've known guys who were trained fighters who competed in tournaments with rules, but knew how to fight without rules in the streets. Guys who were into Shotokan for instance would break kneecaps in the streets. Catchwrestling is a useful skill as many fights do tend to end up in some sort of clench. All that groundfighting can't be useful in a real fight in the streets. Yes it can. I've seen people who were not trained fighters end up on the ground numerous times and how much could a ground game have come in handy then? Although if you're about to get jumped groundfighting will not do and you're probably better off running away if you can. Although trained fighters may take on more than one opponent and it'll take more than Judo, or any other grappling art to deal with that. Bruce Lee wrote a book called The Tao of Jeet Kune Do. His work helped influence moderm mixed martial arts. Give it a read. Look at what you see in the sport and check out a fight in your neighborhood sometime and see if the fighters of MMA are all about nonsense.

Some people tend to adapt what they have learned as fighters to sports participation in the body of the rules. Some people have come from other sports and made their way over to MMA. You will see people from college programs like wrestling or even Olympians become MMA fighters. So where there are rules in MMA there are none for you trying to protect your life. There are some martial arts from europe which involve alot of weapons training, swords, pikes, daggers, and the like. They're known as European Martial Arts. It also includes boxing and wrestling but there is alot of weapons training. However, you'd probably be bettr off with a gun.