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Thread: Reincarnation

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram
    Since you are so keen to prove that Vishsitadvaita is "reduced" advaita, let us have some balance.

    I also think that advaita is "reduced" Vishistadvaita.
    Quite possible. Neither of us is not enlightened to come to a valid conclusion. You follow your convictions, and me mine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ram
    That is, Shankara was a Vishsitadvaitin towards intellectuals, but professed to be an advaitin for the sake of the common man who had become too arrogant to equate himself to God.

    Here is a verse from Shankara's Vishnu Shatpadi.

    satyapi nedhapagame naTh tvAham na mAmkInastvam |
    sAmudrO hi taranga: kvacana samudrO na taranga: ||

    O Lord! Even though there is no difference between us , I belong to You and not vice-versa. Just like the ocean is made of waves but the waves are not made up of ocean.

    This is Vishsistadvaita. There is even no doubt that Shankara has an "I" that is different from God. Since Shankara is said to be an avatar of Shiva, this cannot even be the apparent dualty seen by a jivan mukta. The reference to Lord in the verse confirms that Shankara was not "Lord" and lacked the powers to create and destroy as exactly explained by Sri Ramanuja. Individual soul is equal to God in everything, except for the powers of creation and destruction, and brought out by Shankara here.

    TS, Now it is your turn!
    I know these verses very well. I can quote you more verses in your favour. So? Advaita is called non dualty for this very reason, it always implies some kind of non dualty in dualty. If no dualty were possible, we could call it as oneness, instead of non dualty.

    Pranjna always exists in Turiya. When viewed from the perspective of a jnanin, mukti is advaita. When viewed from the perspective of a bhakta, mukti is Vishistadvaita. I dont see any contradictions. Here, Sri Shankara is obviously in the mode of a bhakta. jivanmuktas may oscillate between these states of ecstacy and perfect stillness.

    It is wrong to think that advaita is "advaita" as stated in the philosophy of advaita. Can you even imagine the concept of advaitam? It is impossible to even think of such a state. It is left undefined, as is called Nirguna. The arguments against Nirguna are made on the assumption that it is something bound by human logic. Some classical advaitins may go to the extreme while defining advaitam - ex negativa, in terms of negatives. I dont like that approach - but definining it as positives creates logical fallacies in the philosophy of advaita. Brahman is self luminous, and take any attribute you like and scale it infinite fold. Do this for every attribute, that is Brahman. Ever heard of the term Sahasra Koti Govinda?


    As I said earlier, if you strip your God of form, that will be close to advaitic Brahman though not identical. As long as Brahman is described by some form, it ceases to be Turiya.

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    Re: Reincarnation

    The Mechanism of Reincarnation

    To complement the discussions abour reincarnation here, I would like to present here the Theosophical view about the mechanism of reincarnation. To start with, let us recap some basics:

    Seven Worlds
    The space in the universe (and our solar system) has seven dimensions. The first three of these are in the physical world, and increments by one with the other worlds: astral world, mental world, causal world, monodic world, and the divine world. Each world has matter made of its own ultimate atom.

    The Hindu equivalents of these seven worlds are: Bhur-loka, Bhuvar-loka, Suvarloka, Maharloka, Janarloka, Taparloka and Satya-loka. The popular pranayamam shloka 'Om Bhuhu, Om Bhuvaha, Ohum Suvaha, Om Mahaha ... bhurbhuvasuvarom' speaks of these seven lokas.

    What is popularly known as the heavens are the seven sub-planes of the mental world. The lowest sub-plane of the astral world constitutes the hell.

    Seven Principles
    Human soul is clothed with seven principles:

    Physical body
    This is the biological body, with five senses of action (karmendryas), five senses of knowledge (jnanedryas) and the brain (the physical medium of the mind). The biological body contains matter from the three lower sub-planes of the physical world: solid, liquid and gaseous.

    Etheric double
    This is an exact replica of physical body but with only matter from the four higher sub-planes of the physical world (these are just four grades of ether). This is the body where the seven chakras reside and regulate the flow of prana. This is the body that determines the health aura of a person.

    Astral body
    This is a body made of emotional energy. The astral body has the shape of the physical body with matter from the astral world. In the dream state during sleep, human consciousness is focussed on the astral body that travels in the astral world. Thus, your lucid dreams are your expriences in the astral world.

    Mental body
    Made of matter from the mental world, this body is where our thoughts originate. Concrete thoughts take shape in mental matter, descend to astral world and finally enter the medium of the physical brain. In the deep sleep state, human consciousness is focussed on the mental body, that resides on the four lower sub-planes of the mental world.

    Causal body
    Home of the higher manas where thoughts are in abstract terms, this body is resident in the three upper sub-planes of the mental world. The causal body is well developed with yogis and helps them experience the bliss of meditation.

    Buddhi
    This is the discrminating principle, that warns us inwardly when we are about to do something that does not help us spiritually.

    Atma
    The human soul, also called the Self, is part of the Cosmic Consciousness or Brahman.

    Ego
    Thus we have: atman, the divine monad, giving birth to the divine ego, which latter evolves forth the monadic envelope or divine soul. Jiva, the spiritual monad, has its child, which is the spiritual ego, and this in turn evolves forth the spiritual soul or individual; and the combination of these two, considered as a unit, generally speaking, is atma-buddhi; bhutatman, the human ego -- the higher human soul, including the lower buddhi and higher manas; pranatman, the personal ego -- the ordinary human soul or person -- including manas, kama, and prana; and finally the beast or animal ego -- the vital-astral soul: kama and prana. (Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary)

    The Mechanism of Reincarnation
    At death of the physical body, the soul lives in the astral world until its astral body is dead, then enjoys the fruits of its good karma in a heaven of the mental world. When this is over, because of the left-over karma, the soul descends into the lower worlds for another birth.

    The following is a discussion from the book The Causal Body by Arthur E. Powell.

    ...after the death of the physical body, the ego steadily withdraws through plane after plane, until eventually he is clothed only in his causal vehicle. At physical death, the life web, together with prana is withdrawn into the heart, round the physical permanent atom. The physical permanent atom then rises along the Sushumna-nadi --- a canal running from the heart to the third ventricle - into the head, to the third ventricle of the brain. Then the whole of the life-web, collected round the permanent atom, rises slowly to the point of junction of the parietal and occipital sutures, and leaves the physical body - now dead.

    As the ego vacates each of his bodies, the permanent atoms of those bodies pass into a dormant condition , and are retained in the causal body in that quiescent state. Wile the man is in his causal body only, he thus has within that body the physical permanent atom, the astral permanent atom, and the mental permanent molecule, or unit,as it is more usually called. These three, wrapped in the buddhic life-web, appear as a brilliant nucleus-like particle in the causal body. They are, of course, all that now remains to the ego of the physical, astral and mental bodies of his previous incarnation.

    ...when the life on the higher mental sub-planes comes to an end, we perceive that Trishna i.e.,desire for further experience, reasserts itself, and the ego once more turns his attention outwards, stepping over the threshold of devachan into what has been called the plane of reincarnation, bringing with him the results, small or great, of his devachanic work.

    With his attention turned outwards, as said, the ego sends forth a thrill of life, which arouses the mental unit. The flow in the spirillae of this unit, and in the other permanent atoms in their turn, which during the period of repose, has been small and slow, is now increased, and the mental unit, thus stimulated, begins to vibrate strongly.

    The life-web begins to unfold again, and the vibrating mental unit, acting as a magnet, draws around itself mental matter, with vibratory powers resembling, or accordant with, its own.

    The devas of the Second Elemental Kingdom bring this material within reach of the mental unit, and, in the earlier stages of evolution, they also shape the matter into a loose cloud around the permanent unit: but, as evolution proceeds, the ego himself exercises an ever increasing influence over the shaping of the material.

    When the mental body is partially formed, the life-thrill from the ego awakens the astral permanent atom, and a similar procedure takes place, a cloud of astral matter being drawn round the astral permanent atom.

    In his descent to incarnation, we thus see that the ego does not receive ready-made mental and astral bodies: instead, he receives material out of which these bodies will be built, in the course of the life that is to follow. Moreover, the matter which he receives is capable of providing him with mental and astral bodies, of exactly the same type as those he had at the end of his last mental and astral lives, respectively.

    -----
    (from the book The Etheric Double)
    The Etheric Double is actually built in advance for the incoming Ego, by an elemental which is the joint thought-form of the four Devarajas, each of whom presides over one of the four etheric sub-planes of physical matter. The primary business of this building elemental is to construct the etheric mould into which the physical particles of the new baby-body are to be built.
    -----

    We may add, however, that during human ante-natal life the prolongation of the Sutratma is formed, consisting of a single thread, which weaves a network, a shimmering web of inconceivable fineness and delicate beauty, with minute meshes, reminding one of the closely woven cocoon of the silkworm.

    Within the meshes of this web the coarser particles of the bodies are built together. Thus if the bodies are looked at with buddhic vision, they all disappear, and in their places is seen this web of life, as it is called, which supports and vivifies all the bodies.

    During the ante-natal life, the thread grows out from the physical permanent atom and branches out in every direction, the growth continuing until the physical, body is full grown. During physical life the prana, or vitality, courses along the branches and meshes.

    The ordinary ego is, of course, by no means in a position to choose a body for himself. The place of his birth is usually determined by the combined action, of three forces: these are: [1] the law of evolution, which causes an ego to be born under conditions which will give him an opportunity of developing exactly those qualities, of which he stands most in need; [2] the law of karma. The ego may not have deserved the best possible opportunity, and so he has to put up with the second or third best. He may not even have deserved any great opportunity at all, and so a tumultuous life of small progress may be his fate. We shall return a little later to this question, of the karma of an ego; [3] the force of any personal ties of love or hate that the ego may have previously formed.

    We have seen that as the ego descends to a fresh incarnation, he has to take up the burden of his past, much of which has been stored as vibratory tendencies in his permanent atoms. These germs or seeds are known to Buddhists as Skandhas, a convenient word for which there seems to be as yet no exact equivalent in English. They consist of material qualities, sensations, abstract ideas, tendencies of mind, mental powers, the pure aroma of all these having been built into the causal body, the remainder being stored, as stated, in the permanent atoms and mental unit.

    Hence it is the law of Karma which guides the man unerringly towards the race and nation herein are to be found the general characteristics that will produce a body and provide a social environment fitted for the manifestation of the general character, built up by the Ego in previous earth-lives, and for reaping of the harvest he has sown.

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    Re: Reincarnation

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by coolbodhi
    Hi,
    If atma is eternal and unborn who and what keeps getting reincarnated?
    Namaste coolbodhi,

    I thought to add my humble opinion on this matter on vasanas, or those impressions that are gained by the native life-to-life. These vasanas form the foundation of the individual, birth after birth. Some say they are the root cause for re-birth, as the impressions for unfulfilled desires are brought life-after-life to be fulfilled. Becoming enlightened stops this progression.

    I bring this up because as we gain deeper silence in the discovery of SELF, these vasanas have smaller impressions on us as our consciousness becomes clearer and we lose the clutter.

    Patanjali talks much of this in his yoga-sutras... you probably know vasana by another name, samskara, which is an approximation.

    I was taught this analogy. In
    ignorance consciousness we receive impressions in chitta and its like a chisel making a line on a piece of granite. Its deep and it stays for a very long time. As one meditates and gets clearer, the impressions are more like a stick drawing a line in sand. Its there, you see it, yet the sand falls in on itself and the line is "captured" back into the sand. Then we meditate a bit more, consciousness expands, more purity and the impressions are like a line being drawn in water. Its there and then its not. More transcending , more purity (sattva infusion) and now the impressions are like drawing a line in the air! subtly there, but then gone. NO binding influence; No karmic baggage, no lasting impressions, no vasanas. Bingo! your done.

    The only remnants is the thing called Lesh-avidya, or the remains ( left overs or coloration) of ignorance just due to acting in this world.
    Now, you may want to note how you handle situations over time (this really has changed for me)... this gives you a glimpse of how impressions are made into your circuitry. Are they deep, shallow? are you craving for things or do objects and desires have less hold on you? A good gage to consider the vasana impressions.
    As we progress, a few things arise:
    Sattwapatti or purity of mind. All mental modifications are reduced to identification with the Self.
    Asamsakti or detached state. Being unaffected by anything in the world, due to the knowledge of the Self.


    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Reincarnation

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalGypsi View Post
    So, according to Hindu beliefs, once a soul has attained enlightenment, do they have any association with souls that have been reincarnated?

    And, souls in the astral realm waiting to be incarnated, do they have knowledge of their past life, any contact with the people living?

    For example. let's say two sisters are killed together, one has attained enlightenment, one has not. According to Hindu beliefs, as they leave their physical bodies, do they have any relationship, are they aware of each other up to a certain point as souls? And, does the enlightened sister have memory, association with the sister who has been reincarnated to another life?
    Enlightened souls typically fall in two classes - those that are in the highest realms of heavens, like Satya Loka. These souls can communicate with other souls in bondage in various ways, and are omniscient.

    Another are those that are fully liberated beyond the manifested universe. As to the question if these souls can interact with the universe the answer is quite varied and no single answer could be called authoritative. According to advaita, no individual soul persists to communicate. Dvaita thinks that the liberated ones, even though the individuality survives, the soul is not in touch with the world and are in entirely different realm. In Vishistadvaita, the concept of muktas incarnating in the world in fully accepted, as participating in this glory sport of God.

    Souls in the astral realm usually do not possess knowledge of past birth unless it is very advanced yogically. Most beings in astral world cannot communicate with us, , just like us.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: Reincarnation

    Namaste Mysticalgypsi,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticalgypsi
    And, souls in the astral realm waiting to be incarnated, do they have knowledge of their past life, any contact with the people living?
    As Sudarshan says, it is generally believed that it very rare that those in the astral realm have knowledge of previous births, and can communicate with those in the physical realms. Theres an interesting episode related to this in the Autobiography of a Yogi, which I think youre currently reading. In one chapter, Yogananda claims to have had a vision of his master, Yukteshwar Giri, after his death. In the vision, Yukteshwar tells Yogananda that he is now living in an astral realm called the Hiranya Loka, and is guiding beings unto higher planes of existence. This communication is clearly an exception and is possible due to Yukteshwars yogic prowess.

    So, according to Hindu beliefs, once a soul has attained enlightenment, do they have any association with souls that have been reincarnated?
    According to some, liberated beings (muktas) do take birth in this world. Yogananda also speaks about this in his book, in passing. He calls them Paramuktas. He says that the difference between Paramuktas and ordinary gurus is that the Paramuktas can guide a large number of beings unto enlightenment, whereas ordinary gurus can only guide a few.

    Regards,
    A.



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    Re: Reincarnation

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnideva View Post

    As Sudarshan says, it is generally believed that it very rare that those in the astral realm have knowledge of previous births, and can communicate with those in the physical realms. Theres an interesting episode related to this in the Autobiography of a Yogi, which I think youre currently reading. In one chapter, Yogananda claims to have had a vision of his master, Yukteshwar Giri, after his death. In the vision, Yukteshwar tells Yogananda that he is now living in an astral realm called the Hiranya Loka, and is guiding beings unto higher planes of existence. This communication is clearly an exception and is possible due to Yukteshwars yogic prowess.
    Communication is generaly not possible, but allowed under certain kArmic conditions. Haven't we heard of spirits creating trouble for others? Normally, only spirits that you have wronged in the past can trouble you, and not at random.( that is why we have little fear from spirits inspite of millions of them roaming here) Pitri devas usually cant commuicate unless they are spiritually advanced. Very advanced souls, devas and high beings(muktas) can easily communicate.

    When I was living at Madurai, the house opposite to mine had plenty of problems with spirits, and clothes would catch fire without any reason or the people had unexplained swelling on their body. ( like that). The family struggled like that for a long time until one day luckily the then ShankarAcArya happened to visit the neighbourhood and he was able to fix the problem. Yet, the spirit caused caused problem only in that house and spared the neighbourhood and must be purely kArmic.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: Reincarnation

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalGypsi View Post
    Ok, Namaste and thanks so much.

    So, at the moment of death is the soul void of memory of this life? And, how long before they are reincarnated?
    Could be immediately, but theory tells us a minimum of four months is needed, because the child in the womb acquires a soul only in the seventh month. The actual time might range from a few months to thousands of years. Yogis, if they die without getting full enlightenment may enjoy a blissful period lasting thousands of years before incarnating again with the knowledge of the previous.

    Do souls ever recognize each other in the astral world?
    Yes. Most of the souce material is the garuDa purANa. But they will recognize many fathers, mothers, friends, enemies, relatives of many previous births( to the extent the soul can recall), so it should be rather bizzarre.

    As far as spirits, do you think spirits are separate from other beings and always remain spirits of various types, or are spirits=to souls in your mind?
    Spirit=soul.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: Reincarnation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticalgypsi
    As far as spirits, do you think spirits are separate from other beings and always remain spirits of various types, or are spirits=to souls in your mind?
    Namaste Mysticalgypsi,

    This is going to be sort of extraneous information, but may help you understand the Hindu belief in transmigration, afterlife, astral worlds, etc.

    In Hinduism we believe that there is more than just the physical body and the Ātman (embodied soul). The body and the Ātman are sort of separated by layers of sheaths (koshas).

    There are five koshas:

    1. Annamaya Kosha (Sheath of Food)

    2. Prānamaya Kosha (Sheath of Vital Energy)
    3. Manomaya Kosha (Sheath of the Mind)
    4. Vijānamaya Kosha (Sheath of the Intellect)
    5. Ānandamaya Kosha (Sheath of Bliss)

    In the scheme that I am aware of (there may be other schemes), #1 is called the physical body (sthūla sharīra). #2, #3 and #4 are together called the astral body (sūkshma sharīra). #5 is called the causal body (kārana sharīra). The Ātman is beyond, or rather encased by, the three bodies or the five sheaths.

    When we live in the physical plane of existence, we experience the world through the physical body. After death and before rebirth, we may temporarily inhabit one of the many worlds that make up the astral plane of existence, and experience through the astral body. Upon liberation from samsāra, but before final oneness, one may inhibit and develop in the causal plane of existence (in worlds like janaloka, tapaloka, satyaloka), and experience through the causal body. So, when we speak of after-death experiences, astral worlds, spirits communicating, etc., we are speaking of beings who are now experiencing through their astral bodies.

    I hope that helps.

    OM Shanti,
    A.



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    Re: Reincarnation

    Namaste MysticalGypsi,

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalGypsi View Post
    So, at the moment of death is the soul void of memory of this life? And, how long before they are reincarnated? Do souls ever recognize each other in the astral world?
    Yogananda in his book 'Autobiography...' reports in Chapter 11 thus, as spoken by his guru Yukteswar, as to the recognition of relatives and friends from past lives of a disembodied soul living in the astral world:

    The earth-liberated astral being meets a multitude of relatives, fathers, mothers, wives, husbands, and friends, acquired during different incarnations on earth, 43-5 as they appear from time to time in various parts of the astral realms. He is therefore at a loss to understand whom to love especially; he learns in this way to give a divine and equal love to all, as children and individualized expressions of God. Though the outward appearance of loved ones may have changed, more or less according to the development of new qualities in the latest life of any particular soul, the astral being employs his unerring intuition to recognize all those once dear to him in other planes of existence, and to welcome them to their new astral home. Because every atom in creation is inextinguishably dowered with individuality, 43-6 an astral friend will be recognized no matter what costume he may don, even as on earth an actor's identity is discoverable by close observation despite any disguise.
    This passage throws up some interesting points:

    1. Suppose A, a disembodied soul living in the astral world, had its relatives and friends, say B,C, and D from past lives--all of them currently living in the astral world (may be awaiting reincarnation).

    2. Since B,C and D are from the past lives of A, they would be in different stages of evolution. In other words, their current astral bodies would be different from the counterparts of the physical that A knew in past lives.

    3. A can still recognize B,C and D and vice versa, though their current astral bodies are different from what A had known in his past lives.

    4. How can A recognize B,C and D unless he has memory of his past lives? Yukteswar says "the astral being employs his unerring intuition to recognize all those once dear to him in other planes of existence". It seems to me that this intution also gives the ability to remember past lives as otherwise it would be illogical to suppose that the intution can work only for recognition of B,C and D.

    I remember to have read somewhere (not sure where) that a disembodied soul possesses the eight siddhis, though to a restricted extent. In the astral world where the soul lives immediately after death of the physical body, it will naturally seek the region where its immediate relatives and friends live.

    On the death of the astral body, when the soul passes to the mental world (known as the heavens) and enjoys the fruits of its good karma, it interacts with the mental bodies of its previous and past life friends and relatives, and this is not possible without the memory of past lives.

    Only in the physical body, I think, the soul cannot know its past lives, unless it is sufficiently evolved.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalGypsi View Post
    As far as spirits, do you think spirits are separate from other beings and always remain spirits of various types, or are spirits=to souls in your mind?
    Spirits are not human souls. They have a varieity of different classifications. Among the devas themselves there are eight types. And then there are nature spirits and spiritus associated with specific types of work in the astral and mental worlds. (The Hindu count of 33 crores of devas makes sense because such a large force would be needed to administer the seven worlds!) In the lower astral region (called the hell) live the ghosts of human beings who were in the bottom most in spiritual evolution. These entitis greatly suffer because of their past life propensities. For example, a drink-addict would crave for a drink in the astral region where he happens to reside, but woudn't be able to quench his thirst because of the lack of physical body, so he would haunt the bars and try to satisfy his third with the astral counterpart of the liquor fumes emanating there!

    For more details on the astral body and astral life read A.E. Powell's compilation at:
    http://www.theosophical.ca/AstralBodyByPowell-A.htm
    http://www.theosophical.ca/AstralBodyByPowell-B.htm

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    Re: Reincarnation

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by coolbodhi View Post
    Back to the OP, what exactly incarnates?
    Namaste to all on this post,
    you ask good questions. These questions are taken up in the Upanishads.
    If one looks to the Chhandogya Upanishad there is a great info on what happens after dropping the body and how one returns. I will create a seperate post if interested, yet look to the bottom of this post for the content.

    From a Jyotish orientation allow me to address coolbodhi's question on what comes back.

    Lets go with the answer first, then work forwards. What comes back is the mindstuff and the jiva. The body is no more. As a vessel it did its job to house the mind and the spirit. What is 'encoded' is called vasana's and you can read several posts on this , its on this forum. Here's the location:
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=627

    Now, lets work forwards. all of us are considered the makings from the tripod of life, the Lagana or Ascendent ( ruled bt Brahma) and the physical body creation of this incarnation, the moon ( chandra, and of the mind) and the Sun (Surya, and the ruler of the atma, the soul). These 3 make up the core of you. The body comes and goes as its elements returns back to the elements.
    What is of interst is the sum of your actions and where you can go after one drops the body, and how one comes back to this Bhu Loka.
    If one constructs a death chart, some call Punya chakra, at the time of death, one can see (that is, a good Jyotisha) your next station. What are these stations? and what, in one's death chart, gives the indication of the next postion? First the stations:

    Brahma loka - Jupiter is significator - Akasha is the tattva
    Bhu Loka - Sun and Mars are significators - agni is the tattva
    Demi gods and deva's - Moon and Venus significators - jala is the tattva
    Tala loka down to Patala-loka - Saturn is significator - vayu is the tattva
    Naraka loka below the Patala -loca - Mercury is significator - prthvi is tattva
    When one drops the vessel that holds the mind and the atman , this is owned by the 11 rudra ( we talked of this on another post too) , they bind prana to the body. No prana, no binding and the Jiva+mind is no longer contained within the physical body. So , based upon the merits and demerits, one goes to one of the places above.

    At the time of death, the Jyotisha looks at the chart, and then looks to the Drekkana division ( Drekkana is pronounced dreshkana) or the 1/3rd division of each sign/rasi and looks for the rule that guides this prediction.
    That is, and recall from above the tripod of life conversation? the Jyotish evaluates where the sun and moon and their strenth in the chart.
    That is, what graha owns ( we say lords) these strategic postions? Jupiter, Mars, etc etc. This indicates ones next station.

    Some folks come right back to earth , that means the sun and mars is of greatest impact in the drekkana division. What is right back? According to tradition, its one muhurta, or 48 minutes. Now, hold that idea, as my panampara instructs that the shortest time is 12 days. One muhuruta is considered the indicator of the day, and the moon, so one day before coming back to this plane, and up to 9 years before returning , if indicated by ones death chart to return to this earth.

    When one looks at a chart, and tells the native looks like your last station was amonst the siddha's and gandarva's - the native is so happy, but fails to realize why he fell back from that station and arrive back to Bhu loka?

    More if there is interest...
    if you care to read Srimad - Bhagavatam, chapt 11.14 on, this will help.

    And the Chhandogya Upanishad, the conversation of Svetaketu ( a most profund name to have) and his conversation with the king Pravahana Jaivali. He asks Svetaketu, do you know where people go after they depart from this world? Do you know where people come when they are reborn in this world? Do you know what path the soul ascends ( devayana and pitriyana)? Why is the yonder world not filled people and not over flowing? And do you know the 5 oblations...the fifth, as liquid becoming a human being?
    To these questions, the student says he does not know...
    This is great and insightful reading. For those hungry for knowledge , is very enlightening.

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 13 January 2007 at 01:55 PM. Reason: added Vasana's post location
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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