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Thread: Kāla

  1. #1

    Kāla

    Probably one of my biggest challenges with Hinduism surrounds (what I find) the exaggerated periods of time involved in the yuga cycles during which human beings are said to have lived millions of years ago. This simply does not jive well with modern-day scientific findings or evolution. Now, I understand empiricism is not the end-all of human thought and philosophy, but to imagine our sciences and pre-historical extrapolations to be so dead wrong is not something I find cogent. My reason cannot accept it. Instead, I prefer to think of time as it relates to the yugas in a strictly spiritual sense. The passage of empirical time is one thing; but I think time can also be looked at from the perspective of "God's time" or a kairotic expression of the divine shakti within time, but not empirically.

    This is definitely a difficult aspect of Hinduism for myself intellectually. Although I absolutely adore Hinduism and find it profound on many levels, some elements I cannot will myself to believe even if I tried. Hopefully I will be able to find a synthesis that will allow me to preserve my Dharmic faith and yet remain stalwart in my critical faculty.

  2. #2

    Re: Kāla

    you may want to search micheal cremo on google and you tube and loko out for forbidden history. hopefully that will be some proof for "exaggerated periods of time".

    here one video for you

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ug-IPjtM-s

    hope it helps you on your quest to unearth proof.

  3. #3

  4. #4

    Re: Kāla

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlife View Post
    Namaste, goodlife.

    Unfortunately, (and I am not trying to sound mean or biased) I do not, or rather cannot, take very seriously the claims made by such fringe scientists and "specialists" as featured in such films as the ones you just showed me. Most of these people are frauds or in any case their credentials are highly suspect. And, even if a handful of anomalous findings do happen to be true, I have no real way of knowing whether they are authentic or not. Seeing as how most of such findings have been thoroughly debunked time and time again (as more or less hoaxes), I think I'd fare much better by sticking to the contemporary scholarly consensus surrounding evolution and the age of the earth...

    Perhaps one day I will get my mind blown and have a complete paradigm shift. I would need a great deal more evidence, however, than you have provided, unfortunately.

  5. #5

    Re: Kāla

    Quote Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
    Most of these people are frauds or in any case their credentials are highly suspect.
    Namaste, fraud... hoax... well, do you have any basis for saying that other than your own water-well ? You do not have to believe anything, but we don't call them frauds just because we got used to old empirical speculation theories that happen to be in textbooks. They are in textbooks because no one bothered to climb out of the well.

    praNAm
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  6. #6

    Re: Kāla

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Namaste, fraud... hoax... well, do you have any basis for saying that other than your own water-well ? You do not have to believe anything, but we don't call them frauds just because we got used to old empirical speculation theories that happen to be in textbooks. They are in textbooks because no one bothered to climb out of the well.

    praNAm
    Well, in the later link goodlife sent me to the Charlton Heston documentary, Don Patton and Carl Baugh (who feature in it) are well-known frauds with very dubious credentials. I don't know that much about Thompson and Cremo but the latter supposedly never finished college and the former's expertise is in mathematics, not archaeology.

    By association, if not by repute, such individuals cast tremendous doubt on the veridicality of their findings.

  7. #7
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    Re: Kāla

    Quote Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
    Probably one of my biggest challenges with Hinduism surrounds (what I find) the exaggerated periods of time involved in the yuga cycles during which human beings are said to have lived millions of years ago. This simply does not jive well with modern-day scientific findings or evolution.
    Namaste,
    The hindu yuga or time scale concept outlined in scriptures poses simultaneously an academic challenge and serve an inspiration to all contemporary scientists. Some vedic concepts deserve mention here : the entire cosmos is in a constant flux of creation, evolution and destruction depending on which segment one is looking at any given moment. Another school of thought is that once in a while the entire cosmos (physical world) gets destroyed but then only to reform later, in this latter model the only link between any contiguous 2 cosmic creations is the formless, imperishable Brahman. The former works as a base model for the very recently shaping up ‘theory of MULTIverse’ that is now replacing formerly popular UNIverse model. As a result the bigbang is downsized to the origins of OUR own UNIverse, thus supporting a cosmic model with many universes existing simultaneously. Today, on science channel I heard some thing familiar: Is time an illusion we created to explain our own universe? The term illusion stood out prominently –it is a very vedic term. The presenter went on to talk about string theory and bubble theory and wormhole theory to explain shape and size of universe. Infinity, another vedic concept, seems to have gained larger approval nowadays.

    Theoretical cosmology is going to draw lot of inspiration from Sanskrit texts, it is a different matter acknowledgements may not be heaped on the vedas as ‘original reference sources’. Just like Darwin conveniently failed to mention dashavatars as an original path breaking reference article in his theory of origin of species just 150 yrs ago. Notably, by then his fellow Brits were already firmly camping in south asia and vigorously exploring the Sanskrit texts. Thank you Carl Segan, we love you for your honesty.

    Brahman existed forever and so did his manifest creation as well. So an actual date on which the genesis of creation (of physical world) heralded cant be set. Lets think for a second- which space probe can go on forever on an infinite space travel without attrition, and assuming that it did, the images and data sent back to our golden planet will be thousands of light years old. There is no way of looking at realtime events unfolding in cosmos beyond a short distance. Brahman is many steps ahead of us, our handicap lies right there, sadly solution is not going to be found… in our earth’s lifetime that is !

  8. #8

    Re: Kāla

    Namaste Kismet

    i posted videos so you should know that there exists people who think they have proof to show that our history goes way back in time.

    We should not believe prima facie but then cant discard them out right.

    ALl things presented which are contrary to popular consensus are termed hoax, fraud etc. by vested interestes.

    remember galileo? or more recently tesla Vs edison? AC Vs DC?? or may AIT??

  9. #9

    Re: Kāla

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlife View Post
    Namaste Kismet

    i posted videos so you should know that there exists people who think they have proof to show that our history goes way back in time.

    We should not believe prima facie but then cant discard them out right.

    ALl things presented which are contrary to popular consensus are termed hoax, fraud etc. by vested interestes.

    remember galileo? or more recently tesla Vs edison? AC Vs DC?? or may AIT??
    That is a very good point, actually. How do we know, after all, what is and what isn't true? Typically it is good to look at particular fields of expertise and see, therein, what the experts think is best. And so, if you wish to know what doctors know, you go to medical school, if you want to know what Catholic priests know, you go to seminary, etc, etc. We've all heard this before.

    But what if the experts themselves are wrong? Worse, what if they comprise some information-twisting cabal that is dead-set on giving a spurious interpretation of the facts in accordance with some base agenda?

    My answer is: what is your evidence? What makes you think the current paradigm is all that false? What is more, why should anyone think there is an outright conspiracy pervading the scientific community?

    Paradigm shifts do occur, granted. Huge, leveling changes in the way we perceive physics, cosmology, astronomy, etc. But they are pretty atypical and far in-between expanses of time where the consensus is fixed. If a shift is going to ensue, then time itself will reveal it. Truth will come to light eventually, especially when it becomes too difficult to ignore. Until then, I am going to accept the consensus unless such information comes to light that I myself cannot dismiss as merely hearsay, anecdotal or in any other sense dubious.

  10. #10

    Re: Kāla

    Namasté

    Does the Hindu tradition say that Humans exist in these periods or that the Jivas exist? In greater forms?

    Modern physics which can currently only explain 20% of the visible universe, delicately negates the issue of quantum electro dynamics relying heavily on time going both forwards and backwards or on the existence of a multiverse. I should recommend that you re read the newer suppositions of modern physics before making any judgement.

    Maybe time accelerates causing the thickening of Maya?

    Om shanti.
    Last edited by Mana; 23 June 2011 at 04:24 AM.

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