No more Jesus junk around here

[Ananda]

Hello folks,

love God with all your heart and soul and strength; to love your enemies; pray for those who persecute and harm you; bless those who curse you; and do not judge so you are not judged the same way you judge.

I think, all of the misrepresentations of Jesus aside, Jesus, as spiritual teachers go, is very overrated. If this particular quote above can be served as a summary of Jesus' whole teaching, then yes, it is a good moral teaching, but that's all it is, and as a spiritual teacher Jesus was already obsolete in his own time.

These teachings are not unique or original in any way; there have been, both before and after Jesus, much more direct teachers and teachings- teachers and teachings which have not been subject to misrepresentation and distortion by fanatics and theologists over the centuries.

We don't need Jesus- whether we are from the east or the west, whether we are Hindu or not Hindu; the majority of people in the world have the same innate moral sense which Jesus taught (such as love your neighbour), and his spiritual teachings are nothing profound and have been matched and bettered elsewhere, such as in our own teaching tradition.

Jesus, then, as a middle of the road spiritual teacher, has so much baggage and carnage following his wake that the utility of him as a viable spiritual authority is so vastly outweighed by the horrors of christian doctrine that it would, in my own opinion, be altogether more sensible to simply stop placing him on a pedestal and instead appreciate other teachers who have a much stronger message- without the trail of destruction following after them.

As an aside, I do find Jesus' 'heretical' teachings found in the gnostic gospels, such as the Gospel of Thomas, to be very intriguing, and are worth more consideration than any of the established doctrines that current christian authorities espouse.

[Adhvagat]

I see that people usually say that Christianity was twisted by man for political motives...

However, where do we find this original spiritually pure Christianity?

IMO, it's long gone if it ever existed in the form that christians would like to believe.

But this raw anger is not helpful to Hindus, not at all, Hindus are going to be viewed as xenophobic and haters. Hindus should be very careful, clear, informed, intelligent and above all polite when touching these matters. Rajiv Malhotra is a role model in these matters.

[Jainarayan]

However, where do we find this original spiritually pure Christianity?

IMO, it's long gone if it ever existed in the form that christians would like to believe.

The Essenes and the Gnostics. They ran afoul of both the Jewish leaders and early church leaders. "Christians" don't want to know about them because of their austere and nearly ascetic lifestyle, which is what Christianity was supposed to be. They were devoted to the contemplation of God. Remember "sell all you have and give the money to the poor; then you will enter the kingdom of God". Who is going to do that today? George W. Bush? Not very likely. So much for Christianity.

The closest you come to that today are in the monasteries of the Greek Orthodox Church on Mount Athos in Greece. Even the Russian Orthodox Church doesn't hold a candle (no pun intended) to the Greeks. The ROC had ~70 years of Soviet rule, and forgot what monasticism is. The Greeks had no such break in 2,000 years.

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste all,

I completely agree with Issac and Sahasranama. Some of my earlier posts from when I first joined this forum were back when I was young and ignorant (or more than I am now). I espoused universalism and said that there was nothing wrong with bringing Jesus or his teachings into Hinduism. Only recently have I realized how wrong, dangerous, and stupid that is.

For one thing, Jesus never existed in the first place. There is no historical evidence whatsoever of his existence. He is just a fantasy that was created by some Jews based on past figures and myths, and even then he didn't fulfill all of the prophecies that the messiah was supposed to and there are numerous discrepancies in the Gospels. Early Christians even debated and killed each other over the supposed nature of "Jesus".

More importantly, as a Hindu, why would you need to bring Jesus into Hinduism? Does Sanatana Dharma not have enough deities and facets of the Supreme, that you need to bring in Jesus? It's true that the majority of Jesus' supposed teachings are compatible with Hinduism, but why do you need to go to Jesus for those teachings when they are already found in Hinduism and were there for thousands of years before the myth of Jesus was created?

Another thing is that by bringing Jesus into Hinduism, you are bringing the disease of Abrahamicism into Sanatana Dharma and lending credence to it. Abrahamics (largely because of their religion) have done immense harm and damage to Hinduism and India over the centuries. A Hindu needs absolutely nothing from the Abrahamic religions. Everything a Hindu needs to live a dharmic life and eventually attain moksha is found in Hinduism, and Jesus is not in Hinduism.

As Sahasranama said, there is really no problem if one someone believes in and accepts Jesus, but it is when people try to bring that into Hinduism that it is a major problem. If you want to believe in Hindu teachings and Jesus at the same time, then you are a Universalist. And there is really nothing wrong with that if that is what you choose to do, but please don't try to taint and bring down Hinduism by bringing Jesus into it. No Hindu shastra speaks of Jesus, since he does not exist. But they do speak of Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva and Lord Brahma and Lord Rama and Lord Krishna and Lord Ganesha and Lord Murugan and Maa Durga and Maa Saraswati and Maa Lakshmi and Maa Kali and many many many more. Why not be devoted to these deities and these alone instead of bringing in some mythological figure from religions which have caused mayhem and havoc throughout humanity? What is there to gain from that?

Jai Sri Ram

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste Minotaur,

But it doesn't affect you. Why are you so concerned with it?

Again, why does it concern you? Why are you two so fixated on it? Let it go. It's a concern only to Christians and Jews.

You have your own faith. I'd worry about practicing that as best as I could before I worry about what others believe.

You repeatedly say this as if Hindus are going into Christians' lives and interfering with their faith and religion....The reason this is a concern to Hindus is because the complete opposite of that is happening. People are bringing their Abrahamicism into Hinduism and that is a threat to Sanatana Dharma. Again, like others have said, there is no problem if one chooses to believe Christianity, but it is a problem when they go around proselytizing and also bringing parts of their religion into Hinduism. Hindus just want to be left alone then we can practice our faith without trying to be converted or having tainted with Abrahamic beliefs.

This isn't a matter of Hindus being concerned with Christians and what they believe. It's a matter of Christians and (supposedly) ex-Christians trying to change Hinduism and bring non-Hindu elements into the faith.

Jai Sri Ram

[Kismet]

I am glad someone else feels the same about this as me. I don't have any problem if people want to believe in Jesus, but to pretend he has anything to do with Hinduism is simply criminal. The moderators should if not delete the posts, at least edit it with a disclaimer that these are personal fantasies only and are not endorsed by Hinduism. I don't have the time and energy to object everytime people equate Christianity with Hinduism or start praising Jesus. It should be taken care of by the moderators.

Jesus certainly does not have anything to do with Hinduism in the "official" sense. He belongs to what some might call a very different tradition: the Abrahamic one. But what if we look at things in more philosophical terms rather than purely religious or cultural?

If Parabrahman, or the Soul, is really everywhere and all-pervading, then Truth is, as it were, not limited to any time and place, and can really be found in any person, regardless of overriding tradition. This is assuming we are, as in Advaita, identical with it. Jesus, just like the Buddha, can from that standpoint be treated as more than another prophet or priest, but rather as a true self-manifestation of the Atman and an authentic source of wisdom crossing religions and spiritualities.

[Jainarayan]

Namaste Minotaur,








You repeatedly say this as if Hindus are going into Christians' lives and interfering with their faith and religion....The reason this is a concern to Hindus is because the complete opposite of that is happening. People are bringing their Abrahamicism into Hinduism and that is a threat to Sanatana Dharma. Again, like others have said, there is no problem if one chooses to believe Christianity, but it is a problem when they go around proselytizing and also bringing parts of their religion into Hinduism. Hindus just want to be left alone then we can practice our faith without trying to be converted or having tainted with Abrahamic beliefs.

This isn't a matter of Hindus being concerned with Christians and what they believe. It's a matter of Christians and (supposedly) ex-Christians trying to change Hinduism and bring non-Hindu elements into the faith.

Jai Sri Ram

I was addressing one person who was spouting pure, unadulterated hatred without giving any reason. Not that there is any reason for hatred of any kind. Btw, I don't think I ever said that Hindus were interfering with Christians. Show me where I did and I'll either retract it or clarify and qualify it. You're making a strawman argument. I asked why he was so fixated on Christianity influencing Hinduism. I wanted to know and understand the Hindu mindset on it. Christians could take a lesson from Hindus in compassion and politeness. Except for a few instances in posts I've seen here.

I asked what the basis was for the animosity towards Christianity by Hindus. I said I wanted to understand, but I never got that answer until now. And I can respect it. I don't approve of forcing anyone's beliefs on anyone. Are you surprised?

I live in a country where Christian fundamentalists want to change the US Constitution to say who can marry whom. They want to pass laws based on their brand of Christianity. They want to legislate what can be taught in schools as long as it agrees with their beliefs. Talk about forcing someone's beliefs on other people! That is not what the Constitution is for. That violates the Constitution. I said that before. But again, apparently that wasn't read, or it was deliberately passed over.

I haven't been around here that long, but I have yet to see anyone trying to bring Jesus and Christianity into Hinduism in these conversations. Maybe there are posts buried somewhere. If anyone is in danger, it's America. This is a predominately Christian country, most of whom are sheep and don't see what is happening here. So don't tell me how bad Christians are in India.

Christian missionaries have been over-running sovereign peoples and their own faiths for the past two milennia. Do I approve of it? Certainly not. The best way to counter it is to hold fast to your own faith. If anyone's faith is threatened, how strong is their faith? Look to the weak-faithed Hindus if Christianity is threatening Hinduism. If Hinduism can't resist the advances of another religion, then there is something fundamentally wrong in the strength of Hindus' faith. People of all faiths have died staying true to their faiths.

Jesus may or may not have existed. It's true that there are no historical records of him. The Greeks and Romans wrote everything down, even recipes and grammar books on how to pronounce Latin and Greek. They even wrote about Pontius Pilate. But Jesus? Nope, not a word. I know that. If he did exist, he probably wasn't important enough to notice. I know that too. Does it matter? No. Whoever or whatever wrote what is ascribed to Jesus spoke of God's love, and loving all people. There's nothing wrong with that.

And I'm going to say this again... Hindus have no cause to complain about forced conversions compared to Native Americans, Inuit, Australian Aborigines, Africans. How many Hindus have been enslaved or slaughtered by Christians? How many Native Americans still practice their native religions? Their languages were outlawed. How much of Africa or Central and South America still practice its native religions? Very little. How much of India is still Hindu? Over 80%. How many indigenous languages in the Americas have gone extinct only to be replaced by English and Spanish? Most. How much of India still speaks Hindi, Gujarati, Marathi, Tamil, Malayalam, Kannada, Telugu and the hundreds of others? Most of India.

Having animosity towards Christianity's tactics, you should feel sorry for the thousands of Muslims slaughtered by the Crusaders. But I know where that's headed. I'm sorry, but Hindus are not the offended persons. Look to those other groups who have been virtually wiped out. India is still a strong independent country with a booming economy. It's a big world out there with a lot more truths than you know.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Why the hell do we tolerate jesus **** on a hindu forum ?

Because many are not threatened by Christianity and may perhaps have an open mind... this does not infer you are not open minded.
Over the years this subject has caused much angst here. I myself am of the mind set that when sanātana dharma is strong, where can it shake one's foundation ? Yet I can appreciate the issue of concern overall.


Yet the value as I see it , one comes to know more about their own values by comparing and contrasting it to other religions.

And for those that have disdain for Christianity, it has been put into a folder . One can look in it or pass it up - its that simple. Just like at the zoo. If one does not like the gorillas, then past up that exhibit and head to the giraffes.





praṇām

[Sahasranama]

Let me make you a deal, you people stop telling lies about Hinduism and I'll stop telling the truth about Christianity.

[kallol]

Hi

I see many westerners who have become hindu or in the process of becoming hindu or still christian, come here and start comparing Jesus with lofty hindu ideas. Being an indian hindu and having seen the destruction caused by jesus
junk in indian society, this is deeply troubling to me.

Why the hell do we tolerate jesus **** on a hindu forum ? This forum is not
run by Sonia and her cronies. Thank gods....

If these westerners feel so much for this jesus and his vomit called christianity, we should ask them to go to some jesus forum. Lot of hindus have started warming up to jesus. Ramkrishna mission keep this joker's picture in their ashrams. So this is damaging to hindus in the long run.

For centuries, hindus were terrorised by abrahamic junk. we shall not tolerate it any longer. I ask moderators to delete any thread praising jesus junk.
No exceptions. Hindu spirituality should be approached on "Hindu Terms"
not on our enemy's terms and conditions.

thanks

Dear Issacnewton (Christian name !!!),

The content gives a picture of an insecured mind. The hatred that comes out belies the true practitioners of Hinduism.

If you consider that Hinduism is the Sanatana Dharma which has been rediscovered again and again in every creation then why do you fear. The TRUTH cannot be kept hidden and will evolve however slowly. The TRUTH is permanent - humans are not. So do not bother. Take care of your MIND and MOKSHA, which is what matters. Trying to change others might lead to Talibanism in some form or other.

The trend shows that the illeterates and most backward societies are lured by Christianity or Islam. The learned ones and the knowledge seekers throng towards Hinduism.

What we are mostly scared of is the cultural changes and the loyalty. However the present day India is much confident and strong to take these small abberatons into its stride.

As such we should praise Jesus and Mohammed for bringing in some semblence of this eternal knowledge in the area of barbarians and nomads. Thanks to the influence of Indian spirituality growth beyond the boundaries of Bharath, they had borrowed a lot from here. However is the content, they serve the lower levels of the pyramid well where Bhakti is the main component.

Even Jesus had to get certificate from "Two Great Men from East" (which has to be India of that time) to prove to the then society and followers that he is a great person. His teens period is still a mystery !!!

Creation, countries, societies, humans and their emotional quotients at various levels go through the fluctuations. The Goodness and the TRUTH stay permanently.

Love and best wishes