Buy un-islamic

[sanjaya]

Namaste sanjaya, and thanks for the explanation. It's clearer now. If I understand it correctly, it's not totally unlike Israel, Arab and Palestinian conflicts aside. Israel is a completely secular nation, but deeply rooted in Judaism as a culture. Let's forget for a moment the God who wanted all the inhabitants of Jericho massacred, and disobedient children stoned to death. It's not a theocracy and doesn't proselytize, whereas Christianity and Islam advocate theocracies and have no tolerance for other beliefs.

In this case, because India is overwhelmingly Hindu it stands to reason it would be/should be/is a Hindu nation, though secular and not a theocracy. With the different denominations, sects and flavors of Hinduism I dont know how that would be possible anyway. But that's just a thought experiment.

I suppose it is somewhat like the Israeli state as well. I'm wary of using that example simply because the Jews were out of Palestine for 1800 years before coming back and forcing out the local population, unlike India where we've always lived in the same land. Of course there are all the stories of God ordering massacres too. But since the Bible is made up, I suppose no one can be faulted for that.

Anyway, I've found that Hindu nationalism, if it can even be called that, isn't as militant as other forms of nationalism, and it certainly doesn't propagate itself elsewhere. That's why I don't find as much of a similarity between Hindu nationalism and Islam.

[Jainarayan]

I suppose it is somewhat like the Israeli state as well. I'm wary of using that example simply because the Jews were out of Palestine for 1800 years before coming back and forcing out the local population, unlike India where we've always lived in the same land. Of course there are all the stories of God ordering massacres too. But since the Bible is made up, I suppose no one can be faulted for that.

Yes, that's all true too. Israel, whether modern or ancient has a checkered past wrt to the indigenous peoples living in the area. That's why I added the disclaimer of "Arab and Palestinian conflicts aside". If not for that, it's a nation steeped in a religious culture, but strictly secular. Turkey is also adamant about remaining secular in government and civil matters, though it is predominately Muslim in culture. You really don't hear too much about Turkey.

Anyway, I've found that Hindu nationalism, if it can even be called that, isn't as militant as other forms of nationalism, and it certainly doesn't propagate itself elsewhere. That's why I don't find as much of a similarity between Hindu nationalism and Islam.

For sure. Islam wants total conversion of "infidels". Some Hindus don't want us converts! Maybe "Hindu nationalism" has become a buzzword, being used incorrectly and/or overused... sensationalized.

[saidevo]

Subramanian Swamy's crusade against aggressive Islam

Some interesting developments:
Right to freedom of speech is sancrosant – Harvard University on complaint against Dr.Swamy
http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/201...inst-dr-swamy/

Analysis: How to wipe out Islamic terror
Subramanian Swamy | Saturday, July 16, 2011
http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/com...or_1566203-all

Confront Religious Bigotry!
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~slam/petitions/swamy.php

IMHO, the common Muslim may not be a supporter of their religious aggression, but then when and where it happens, he is not adequately condemning it, and this paints him in shades of red. It is the same with the common Christian against their religious evangelism. As against such attitudes of indifference, the common Hindu does have an opinion and expresses it freely, if any Hindu tries to aggressively assert his religion.

[Jainarayan]

IMHO, the common Muslim may not be a supporter of their religious aggression, but then when and where it happens, he is not adequately condemning it, and this paints him in shades of red. It is the same with the common Christian against their religious evangelism.

Three words: Silence gives consent.

'Tis true. Where were the condemnations from "moderate" Muslim clerics and governments after 9/11, the bombings in Spain, London, India, Bali?

Fortunately in the US we have the Constitution and federal courts which rein in the Christian right wing (most of the time, when possible). There was a case in Pennsylvania in which a school district fired some teachers for not teaching "intelligent design". It went to court, and the judge ruled against the school district and teaching intelligent design.

There were plenty of arguments pro and con in the trial, but in the end, the pro-intelligent design camp could not prove intelligent design is anything more than veiled Judeo-Christian creationism.

That's slapping down extremists.

[Eastern Mind]

Subramanian Swamy's crusade against aggressive Islam

Some interesting developments:
Right to freedom of speech is sancrosant � Harvard University on complaint against Dr.Swamy
http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/201...inst-dr-swamy/

Analysis: How to wipe out Islamic terror
Subramanian Swamy | Saturday, July 16, 2011
http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/com...or_1566203-all

Confront Religious Bigotry!
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~slam/petitions/swamy.php

IMHO, the common Muslim may not be a supporter of their religious aggression, but then when and where it happens, he is not adequately condemning it, and this paints him in shades of red. It is the same with the common Christian against their religious evangelism. As against such attitudes of indifference, the common Hindu does have an opinion and expresses it freely, if any Hindu tries to aggressively assert his religion.

Vannakkam: Wow. And this when Harvard grants Wendy Doniger an honorary degree for her thinly veiled hate.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jainarayan]

I'm glad I was talked out of her version of the Rig Veda.

[Believer]

That's what asking for correction and education means. And that education and correction can be done without a defensive and a snarky tone.

If one were to go to a Jewish website and make a post, "Hitler was a good man. Correct me if I am wrong, I am looking to be educated." No one would look at such a person kindly.

Similarly, when Hindutava is compared to extremism, instead of what it is - an assertion of Hindu values and culture - does the poster expect to be coddled? If one wants to be educated, the poster would simply ask about the meaning/significance/essence of Hindutava, NOT make some unkind statements, and as an addendum ask to be corrected. What is the point of posting misinformed/unflattering/inflammatory definition of the term (which the poster may actually believe in) and then acting 'innocent' as if other people are at fault. Why not just keep your mouth shut about things you know nothing about and ask to be educated, rather than taking a dump and asking if that was bad? Respect is something that I have to earn from other people, it is not my entitlement. When I say stupid things, I open the door for others to ridicule me. It is I, who starts the process, not others.

[Jainarayan]

A little late to the party, aren't you? I thought we got past this. You'd have seen that if you followed the thread instead of savaging me like a great white shark from a post at the beginning.

If one were to go to a Jewish website and make a post, "Hitler was a good man. Correct me if I am wrong, I am looking to be educated." No one would look at such a person kindly.

Bad analogy, logical fallacy. There's hardly a person in the civilized world who doesn't know who Hitler was. There's hardly a person in the western world, including me, who knows what Hindutva is about. I didn't ask to be coddled, I asked to be corrected after I admitted I was most likely uninformed.

And as I said to your friend, you saw disparagement and took offense where none was intended. The problem lies in your perception. I'm tired of defending myself for the same thing, for what I admit is ignorance.

When I say stupid things, I open the door for others to ridicule me.

Then let the games begin.