Life in the Astral World

[PatrickMB]

Namaste All. I hope my question is not too petty. There is so much which I have to learn!

While the soul within the subtle body lives in the astral world between death and re-brith, can one experience pleasures and joys such as romantic love, satisfying work and personal friendships? I am assuming a preponderance of Good Karma.

The ultimate goal of the enlightened soul is moksha. Until a sufficient number of deaths and re-births have been experienced by the soul, however, can these "interim periods" be pleasant and happy?

Thank you to whomever can aid in my enlightenment.

[sunyata07]

Namaste Patrick,

Good question. I think your question is probably referring to the concecpt of Purusharthas (the individual goals), which consists of four aims for each person: dharma, artha, kama and moksha - in that order. One does not need to renounce all ties to life in order to achieve moksha, although if the life of a renunciant is indeed suited to a particular person, it can be quite an effective way of achieving it. Many great souls achieved great spiritual growth and liberation by balancing the four aims. To be honest, I don't see how isolating any of the aims can be at all beneficial. They are interdependent, although I think one aim can take greater importance than another depending on one's life station, his changing circumstances, etc.

The other more knowledgeable souls on this board will answer your question in detail, I'm sure. Until then, I will also add that I don't think enjoying the pleasures life has to offer us is in any way detrimental to our spiritual growth. We were put on this earth to enjoy the fruits of life God has blessed us with. The important thing is not to get attached to these pleasures, whether that's love, wealth, a successful career and loving friends. Otherwise, I think it is possible to delight in these interim moments and to continue to develop one's spirituality. The two are not mutually exclusive, IMO.

Om namah Shivaya

[Friend from the West]

Patrick, I am with Sunyata, I think substantial question that I can learn from the responses and I grow from her response as well. Thank you for the question. I as well look forward to additonal responses.

[devotee]

While the soul within the subtle body lives in the astral world between death and re-brith, can one experience pleasures and joys such as romantic love, satisfying work and personal friendships?

Yes, of course. On death, the gross world dies but subtle world remains as the impression of the gross-world. All your hungers, means of satisfying those hungers and sense of satisfaction remains the same. Only difference is that earlier the objects of enjoyment were gross now they are subtle. Earlier the enjoyment was through sense organs ... now it directly through mind.

I am assuming a preponderance of Good Karma.

Karmas are karmas ... they are always mixed up & so the outcomes are too come in mixed forms.

The ultimate goal of the enlightened soul is moksha. Until a sufficient number of deaths and re-births have been experienced by the soul, however, can these "interim periods" be pleasant and happy?

That is the mistake we make. There is no need to have endless life-time experiences of learning for the soul to be enlightened. It can be achieved in this life time itself. In fact, your human body is the proof that you are an evolved being fit for Self-realisation.

The joy you are talking about is actually is a mirage. It is impermanent and always with dualiy i.e. there is no joy alone ... it comes with bouts of sorrows as a package. This life is like that. Actually why are we seeking joy at all ? Why are we not sufficient in ourselves ? This is the question taht we should ask. We have lost the greatest joy of our True Nature ... of having a illusive separation from God (in duality terms). There is no joy on this earth which is even a fraction of the joy that comes on Self-realisation ... that is what the Self-realised Saints said.

The cycles of Karma must end and that has to be NOW ! Who knows in waht form we would be born next with what conditions ... though Lord Krishna assures us in BG that things would be favouable depending upon our good Karmas .... but why take such a big risk ? Let's work towards achieving that which we all are seeking consciously or unconsciously.

Having said so, there are some paths in Hinduism which do offer Mukti (liberation) with Bhukti (sensual enjoyment) ... but imho, those paths have many dangers on the way.

OM

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Patrick: I'm with devotee. the astral plane is an exact duplicate of this one, but subtler vibratory rates. it is sometimes called the 2nd world. this is the first, and the plane of the Mahadevas is the third world. My Guru said religion is the working together of all 3 worlds.

Aum Namasivaya

[nitinsharma]

romantic love

I don't belieeve in love
I never have, I never wiell
I don't belieeve in love
It's never worth the pain that you feeyoooouuul

[PatrickMB]

Thank you to all of you who have responded. You have brought shafts of light into my darkness and given me much to think and pray about.

Through some misunderstanding, I assumed that moksha was many lifetimes away for me.

Is there a particular aspect of God to whom one should pray to overcome the attachments and aversions of this physical world? My prayers include those to Maa Durga to defeat the sense illusions which keep me bound to this earth. I would be grateful for any suggestions, realizing that God is the One Supreme Consciousnes.

thank you.

[sunyata07]

Namaste Patrick,

Through some misunderstanding, I assumed that moksha was many lifetimes away for me.

Don't sweat it. Many people probably still think like this. I know I do it a lot. Has it anything to do with the fact that we know we are going to have as many lifetimes as it takes to achieve total union with God? In this way, we have both an advantage and a disadvantage to Abrahamic faiths which advocate only one lifetime to get it right. Having many incarnations can make you somewhat complacent. Yeah, there's no hurry, so why not just spend the next few incarnations enjoying life to its fullest? Once we're reborn, many of us forget our past lives - we cannot know how well or how poorly we have been doing spiritually, so we might convince ourselves we aren't nearly ready to be seriously heading towards the path of liberation, so let's just wait it out another few lifetimes. I don't envy the Christians with their one shot at salvation, but I guess it works as an incentive, you could argue.

Regarding worship, I think it's best that you continue to pray to the aspect of God that speaks the most to you. In this case, Maa Durga. She is already Mohanashini (Destroyer of One's Desires), so what need do you have to turn to any other form? Kali is another powerful form of Devi the devotee can call to compassionately destroy the ego, which is the origin of desires and what keeps us from realising fully the Oneness of everything.

Om namah Shivaya