Who is the "Doer"

[devotee]

Namaste SOV,

If any person, Ignorant or wise, thinks -i am not the doer- How can he indulge in anything?
Before one decides to rob a person's wealth, does he think-i am not the doer and hence i need not rob or let me rob the person(notion of doer). However, thinking-i am not the doer- is possible only for the wise. The rest may just talk about it.

Because of such terrible confusion that it might create, this Brahma-Jnana was reserved for only the best of pupils but somehow it became diluted later on.

First of all, what is doing ? "Doing" is not simply "action by hands/feet" .... the "doing" start with "thinking". Now who is thinking ? When the person has "I" left in him how can he absolve himself from the attachment to the karma he is doing ? "I should rob" ... "I should not rob" has inherent "I" in the thought process & so it has the seeds of attachment. Therefore, "I am not the doer" can happen when this "I" merges with the Cosmic "I" & not before that. When there is left only one "I" devoid of any concept or trace of "others" ... how can there be any karma against "anyone" ?

Lord Krishna says, "Ahamkaar Vimoodhatma kartaham iti manyate" .... so the root cause is "moha" (delusion) due to attachment to "I" (or Ahamkara .... "Aham" means "I" ). So, the doership can be terminated only by terminating this delusion caused by attachment to "I". Let's dissolve our "i" to the Cosmic "I" and then let's see whether there is any thought left to harm the "other".

OM

[Mana]

To understand the dangers of Jnana yoga, to see the razors edge to this path. Look up "pathological narcissism".

These tortured souls are in hell.

Content in the knowledge that they are God the ignorant deluded ones feed directly from those around them. Rather than emitting light they emit darkness. Requiring ignorance in others to maintain their delusions.

Ermmm can we change the subject to something a little lighter?


Om Shanti

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Mana: So a man walks into a bar ..... and bruises his torso.

As for whenever topics turn serious ... 'in one ear and out the other' works for me. Pretty much empty headed anyway, so its easy.

Aum Namasivaya

[Mana]

Hehehe Thank you Eastern Mind!

'in one ear and out the other' works for me.

Ahhh you have the delux selective hearing model, lucky thing.

I'm still trying to find the on off switch for mine but I never read the instructions, just started pressing all the buttons!



Mana

[SOV]

Very Interesting responses.

Every single line of the post was copied and pasted from an old text.

The truth is, I'm not surprised. Please carry on with the discussions. Accept only those which are Politically Correct and which is agreeable to you. Don't even care to come out of your comfort zones. Don't let anyone destroy your ego. Call him crazy and continue living your life.

If you have anything valid to say, point out the mistake of that post.

[Mana]

Very Interesting responses.

Every single line of the post was copied and pasted from an old text.

The truth is, I'm not surprised. Please carry on with the discussions. Accept only those which are Politically Correct and which is agreeable to you. Don't even care to come out of your comfort zones. Don't let anyone destroy your ego. Call him crazy and continue living your life.

If you have anything valid to say, point out the mistake of that post.

Very interesting your reaction.

There are no mistakes, no right and wrong only nature taking its course through the gunas.

My intention was not to criticise you only to highlight the danger in taking wisdom out of context.

Are you reading things between the lines which are not there?


Peace

Mana

[SOV]

Are you reading things between the lines which are not there?

You are.

[Ekoham]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Let me offer one idea for the HDF reader's consideration.

This whole notion of doing is a very big deal. We are talking of kāraka कारक - the doer, making , doing ,
acting , who or what does or produces or creates. Some call this kartā - the agent.

When we talk of this it is very intricate and subtle. To those that are deeply steeped in ignorance
( moha¹) this concept or idea can be mis-taken and bent to meet one's mischief.

The ignorant may think, Oh I am not the doer, then let me do this... let me take anothers wealth, wife, home.
Since I have not done this there is no harm. I am not the doer.

What then of this effect (kārya¹) ? What good came from this knowledge to those that may pick and choose
the various qualities of truth.

For this we need to be mindful on how we explain this wisdom and to whom.

praṇām

words

• moha - darkness or delusion of mind (preventing the discernment of truth and leading men to
  believe in the reality of worldly objects)
• kārya - motive , object , aim , purpose Hence kiṃ kāryam , for what purpose was this action done ?

Namaste Yajvanji,

Can you elaborate on your view in simple language as to "Who is the doer?" you believe.

Pranam

Ekoham