What if.....

[Jainarayan]

Namaste EM.

Lets see how I react when a car is driving the wrong way coming straight at me, or when I'm lying in my own deathbed.

Been there, done that. The only thing I remember about the accident was saying what Bill Cosby said... "Oh xxxx! First you say it, then you do it... either way you're going to have an accident".

I wondered if I'd wake up from a couple of surgeries I had. Most people are afraid, I was curious. I thought "Cool! This could be my ticket out". The anesthesiologists were good at their jobs, though. I know, I'm a sick puppy and make light of my own death.

The way I want to go, however, is in the service or defense of someone else. I unquestionably have a hero complex, which may or may not be my dharma. I guess I won't know until it happens.

[AmIHindu]

Namaste,

Yajvan ji,

More and more on this thought.

Pietro Impagliazzo,

So when I step back more calm and relaxed I can clearly see that, no, I can't have and won't have moksha, simply because I don't truly want it yet.

I also think like, guess I truly don't want it yet. This is like curse that when GOD say me to ask a Vardan and I am not able to ask, like my tongue, my buddhi is stuck up when asking from GOD.

Guess I am stuck up in Maya.

[sunyata07]

Namaste,

Interesting topic. I wish I understood why so many people fear death. Like EM, I cannot say if I fear it myself. It's one of those things you've got to experience first hand before you can say with confidence that you really felt no fear. What is it that agitates people so much about death? Is it fear of the pain of a physical death? Is it fear of the pain of seperation from loved ones? Is it the fear of not knowing where one's jiva will go next? Is it the fear of the possibility of complete emptiness and nothingness after death, and the chance that atman cannot be real? Or is it a combination of all these things?

I wondered if I'd wake up from a couple of surgeries I had. Most people are afraid, I was curious. I thought "Cool! This could be my ticket out". The anesthesiologists were good at their jobs, though. I know, I'm a sick puppy and make light of my own death.

I wouldn't call it a death-wish, Minotaur. I've also felt like that going into surgeries, wondering about that 0.00001% chance of never regaining consciousness.

Om namah Shivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


More on this matter as requested by arjunah and AmIHindu,

First one must ask, what dies no?

Here is one view from the yogavasișțharāmāyaṇa, also known as the Yoga Vasișțha:

When there is cessation of the flow of life-breath the consciousness of the individual becomes passive.
When life-breath ceases the body is said to be 'dead' or 'inert'. The life-breath returns to its source;
consciousness freed from memory and tendencies remains as the Self. The atomic etheral particle which
is possessed of these memories and tendencies are known as the jīva. Some refeter to it as preta or the
departed soul. After a lapse of consciousness this jīva begins to fancy that it sees another body, another world and another life span.


This is one view and there are others. This next part is a bit more robust - who is coming and going?

We look to the praśna upaniṣad (2.7) and pippalāda-ji. Who is he? No less then the śiṣya of Vyāsa-ji.
According to one tradition, Vyāsa entrusted pippalāda-ji with propagating/managing the organization
of the atharva-ved. His name pippalāda means eating the fruit of the Peepal tree. It is implying he is
eating the sweet fruit ( the berry) of knowledge/wisdom - as he is the possessor of this sweet wisdom.
We know praśna is rooted ( √ ) in prach, which means a question. In this praśna upaniṣad 6 questions are posed to the master.

śloka 2.7 give us the insight of who comes and goes: O, prāṇa as prajāpati you move within the wombs; you yourself are born repeatedly.These creatures in each of whom you dwell along with prāṇas brings offerings to you.

Note in this verse and throughout the praśna upaniṣad prāṇa =prajāpati = brahman. Hence we are taught prāṇa =prajāpati = brahman = 'I'. Pure I = pure consciousness = cetana.

So as we go from body to body, who is coming and going?
For those reading this and ask, yajvan, you say isn't prāṇa life-breath, life energy. I say yes, yet in the upaniṣads
and confirmed in the brahma-sūtra-s prāṇa has a ~ higher value ~ of brahman.

We will look a bit closer at what patañjali’s yogadarśana ( yoga sūtra's) has to offer on this matter.

praṇām

[Jainarayan]

I wouldn't call it a death-wish, Minotaur. I've also felt like that going into surgeries, wondering about that 0.00001% chance of never regaining consciousness.

Om namah Shivaya

Lol, no I wouldn't say I have a death wish. But if there's a chance to be with God, I'm sooo there! Of course, it's not my decision.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

As a child, one foolish act of mine put a fear of death in me which was to remain until the passing of my father, so peacefully, that was the turning point in my life, how can death be so peaceful, what is death? if i found a guru this was it.

I remain indifferent to my own death but what i fear most is Birth, the idea of remaining in a confined space for any amount of time, suspended upside down and then to make journey out just freaks me out.

If i was so lucky enough to be asked by Krishna i would say yes to anything.

On the subject off death, once when Yaksa asked Yudhisthir what is the most amazing thing? the answer was given, Day after day countless creatures are going to the abode of Yama, yet those that remain behind believe themselves to be immortal. What can be more amazing than this?

Ready or not when the time comes we have to leave, we can feel the pain even if were to loose a dime what pain we must endure when we have to give up the prize possession?

Jai Shree Krishna

[devotee]

Vannakkam: This concept of fear ... Devotee, of course you are right. Perhaps we should say we (don't) fear the transition.

The subconscious is where fear lies, not in the conscious, or ego. Only an actual action, or experience will let us know how we will react. Take the playground bully. Although he is seen as fearless by peers, when a bigger bully comes along, he will shake in his boots with fear.

Walking the walk is far different than talking the talk. Personally, I really don't know if I fear death or not. Lets see how I react when a car is driving the wrong way coming straight at me, or when I'm lying in my own deathbed. Then I might have some clue. Until then, cluelessness permeates this one.

Aum Namasivaya

I have two instances of having close encounters with near-death situations. Once my car fell down a cliff & I remember clearly that I was not at all afraid & was trying to do something to save myself from any injury (& that is what actually saved me) when the total fall was nearly 50m or so. I lost two of my friends in that accident and I survived without a scratch on my body.

Again while swimming in sea on Mahabalipuram sea-beach I went a little too far and found that there was strong opposite force of returning waves which didn't allow me to go back to the shore. That point was cursed & already had taken lives of 98 people. I was going to be 99th victim. I was not afraid even at that time when I almost left making any attempt to even keep afloat being too tired. (Of course, I survived ... but that is a long story !)

So, I can presume that the usual fear of death doesn't make me afraid.

OM

[Arjuni]

Namasté, all,

What is it that agitates people so much about death? Is it fear of the pain of a physical death? Is it fear of the pain of seperation from loved ones? Is it the fear of not knowing where one's jiva will go next? Is it the fear of the possibility of complete emptiness and nothingness after death, and the chance that atman cannot be real?

Yes, that.

I've written before, and Ganeshprasad also points out with Yudhisthira's answer to the Yaksha - I love that story, by the way, so thanks for the reminder - that people generally don't think of death, or of life, or of faith, and live in a rushed, thoughtless way, flitting through activities and stimulating the senses. So a close brush with death comes, and suddenly people think of everything they wanted to do and haven't even started, all the time they've wasted doing things that don't matter, what will happen to them...

This quote was posted yesterday, to a site I read often:

I live my life even now as if I could die this evening. Your priorities are different when you live your life constantly aware that death is stalking you. You don’t waste your time in trivia or mundane things, or get upset by people.

I'm not generally a Deepak Chopra fan, but that's an excellent sentiment. (Well, mostly. If I knew for sure I was going to die this evening, I wouldn't waste time washing my dishes or doing my laundry, because both are boring activities rendered useless by my impending demise. )

If i was so lucky enough to be asked by Krishna i would say yes to anything.

Right?? It would probably feel different, quite fearless, to be invited directly by God rather than facing a painful or frightening 'transition.' (Of course, we're all invited by God to realise Him every second.)

But if there's a chance to be with God, I'm sooo there!

Then what are you doing posting on HDF? Go meditate!
(Of course I am only teasing you, and even posting is God, particularly if you share knowledge in His service.)

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Let me offer the following for one's kind consideration.


When one grows up , they were once 5 years of age. Then all of a sudden they are now 10. What happened
to the body of the 5 year old ? Where did it go? One becomes 20, what happened to the body of the 10 year old?

We lose all of our cells again and again - they die away yet we continue on and no-one is concerned about the
body they shed 5 years back. What keeps our continuity from one generation cycle to the next ? When we ~die~
what really occurred ?

When we do not understand something, then there is the possibility of fear... the rope looks like a snake, there is fear.
Once the rope is identified the fear is no more.

Now, lets advance the idea just a bit further. What of this fear from Patañjali’s yogadarśana ( yoga sūtra's) ?
We look to chapter 2, the 3rd sūtra calls out 5 kleśa-s ¹ that are destroyed ( over time) by kriyā yoga. They are:

• avidyā - ignorance
• asmitā - egotism
• rāga - desire
• dveṣa - aversion
• abhiniveśa - This I wish to talk of... authors call this fear of death, but this is not what is indicated by this word.

This abhiniveśa is defined as adherence, intentness , affection , devotion. Where do we see the indication of fear?
What is implied here is the adherence to cling to life , this is the kleśa ( affliction). That strong desire
due to ignorance that I wish not to perish, not to go away...I wish not to be extinct!

Due to avidyā one thinks they perish forever and wish to cling to life... the is the fear born of ignorance.
What does kriyā yoga do then ? It destroys the ~fear of death~ by minimizing the 5 kleśa-s.

As they fade away so does this angst regarding death. This is what is offered by the wise... eliminate the
reason for the fear and you bring one into the light.

praṇām

words
kleśa - affliction , distress , anguish

[srinidhi]

There is no fear of death for those who understand the meaning and essence of Bhagavad Gita.