God as father

[Divine Kala]

I'm not sure where to place this so for now it can go here.

Growing up without a father figure (mine died when I was 6) I have a hard time seeing God as a father figure. A mother figure? Most definitely but the idea of God as a father has always eluded me. So I wanted to know just what it is people are referring to when they say they see God as a father figure.

I guess this is why I always had so much trouble with Christianity. The idea of God being male and male only always confused me. There were no men in my life until my mother met her husband and he hasn't had much of a positive impact on me. Why would I pray to God in a form that i can only relate to someone who verbally, emotionally and (almost) physically abused me?

While my relationship with my mother was, at times, rocky I can see God in her. I can't see God in my stepfather. Perhaps because I am deluded by Maya but all I see in him is pain and... hate, an emotion I have now come to accept as something that I myself cannot improve upon in my current state.

...I've just realized I'm rambling but I really needed to get that out there.

[Onkara]

Growing up without a father figure (mine died when I was 6) I have a hard time seeing God as a father figure. A mother figure? Most definitely but the idea of God as a father has always eluded me. So I wanted to know just what it is people are referring to when they say they see God as a father figure.

Namasté
I am glad you raised this as this is something I have been considering personally quite a lot recently, I have started other threads, although not the same, to explore how to understand God and have had excellent feedback from our friends here which has helped me.

Just like you, I have a lot of difficulty approaching God with gender, specifically male. I don't know why. Unlike you I don't have the same experiences. Others may be able to elaborate on why these decisions may lie with our karma, or svabhava (nature). Also on how different bhava are open to us e.g. God as lover, God as child etc.

Scripture explains that the divine is beyond gender as gender is of the mind-body-intellect.

Language is limited, most languages use gender. As such gender reflects ideas. Ideas can lead us to the divine, but the mind (consisting of idea) turns back on reaching the divine (Brahman). So we can use the female or male to lead us to that point at which the means have served the supreme goal.

So in short I see no reason not to approach the divine as female, but what we come up against is our mind, thinking in the form of langauge where "He" may often need to be replaced silently in our minds as "She". Do you think this could be a difficult challenge for us? I expect others have faced this dilemma and can share their remedies?

[Mana]

Namasté Divine Kala

No rambling detected Its a good thing to express ones self.


It sounds like a solid bout of the blues that your going through, believe me when I say that it gets easer and that you are on the right path.

I am so sorry to hear of your difficult situation and past history. I should say that I find your line of enquiry to be very healthy and exactly the sort of meditative process that one needs to go through in order to calm the mind.


Above all else feel no guilt for your situation, you are doing what you can to work it out. It is quite normal to feel no love for someone who has shown us neither love nor light, forgiveness will come when you are ready at which point in time all will seem so very different.

God can be a Father/Mother figure to those who so need, He/She can replace a Father or Mother as a Lord, for those who have overly dominant parents in a way to counter there dominance or to fill the place of a parent who was not present. All this helps us have a little distance from our family backgrounds or Dharma, in order to better understand our own nature.

Some prefer a more active route to the divine by the Path of Karma others through wisdom in Jnana others through meditation, Bhakti devotion is not suited to everyone.

All of these paths take us to God.

I believe that as you progress in your search for peace you will be at advantage in your misfortune. The sweeter illusions of mAyA will be of less consequence to you and hold little sway.

Have you read the Bhagavad Gita recently? I can highly recommend this marvellous book to you, meditate on at least a verse a day.


Om Shanti


Mana

[Jainarayan]

Hmm... this is interesting and now has me thinking. I had a father, but he was emotionally distant. Second generation Sicilian patriarch type. My brothers are 19 and 17 years older than me, and were in the US Navy when I was born, and a toddler. My mother was overprotective and smothering.

Yet, I never saw the Judeo-Christian God as a father figure. I always felt the words "O Heavenly Father" were just that, meaningless words.

Strangely now, I feel that our Mother in all Her forms... Kali, Durga, Saraswati, Parvati, Lakshmi, Radha, et al. are truly a mother figure, but the male forms of God... Krishna, Rama, Shiva, Hanuman, Ganesha, Vishnu, et al. are not father figures to me, but male role models I should have had.

Moreover, each of these deva and devi are the ones I pray to for my special needs. I think this is why God is different for all of us, and manifests in the ways we need.

[sunyata07]

Namaste DK,

While you ask a reasonably question, I don't think it's at all unnatural or wrong that you find it hard envision God in male form. As Onkara was saying God doesn't really have a defined gender, but you already knew that. We could ask why there is a prevalence in the world's religions to view God as male, but perhaps this for another topic? My short answer to your question would be that so many ancient cultures were male-dominated, where one looked to the father for guidance, protection and reassurance. It became natural to use the male sex as the default gender for God.

God is not Him or Her alone, but really That. For our sakes That manifests in the form that we most readily connect to. This is another compassionate gesture from God - that He/She allows us to see Him/Her in whatever way we want to. That which strikes in us the deepest, sincerest feelings of love, devotion and utter sacrifice... this is God, whatever the gender.

That you recognise the problem of delusion - already you are taking apart the seams of Maya by yourself. Like Mana said, don't feel guilty. Don't blame yourself for what was the unfolding of karma. If prayer to the Divine Mother is enough for you, then drink deep from the fountain of Her love. Do you think it would be beneficial to you to try meditating and praying to Sri Ardhanarishvara for a time, to rid yourself slowly of any negative feelings - both conscious and subconscious - you might be harbouring towards the concept of God as male? Looking at God as exactly half male and female is a quick reminder not to get attached to the form. It is just another signpost to the Beloved.

Om namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

God is not male or female as we know, he is sarva, so we pray;



tvameva mAtA cha pitA tvameva tvameva bandhushcha sakhA tvameva
tvameva vidyA draviNaM tvameva tvameva sarvaM mama devadeva

Thou alone art mother and father to me
Thou alone art kin and friend to me
Thou alone art knowledge and wealth to me
Thou art my all, my Lord of Lords.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Jainarayan]

Namaste Ganeshprasad.

Pranam

God is not male or female as we know, he is sarva, so we pray;



tvameva mAtA cha pitA tvameva tvameva bandhushcha sakhA tvameva
tvameva vidyA draviNaM tvameva tvameva sarvaM mama devadeva

Thou alone art mother and father to me
Thou alone art kin and friend to me
Thou alone art knowledge and wealth to me
Thou art my all, my Lord of Lords.

Jai Shree Krishna

That's a beautiful prayer. Here's a little something I did with it. I think it will go into a frame for my altar. The text is a lot prettier than this shows.

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste Divine Kala,

I'm not sure how many Hindus actually view the male forms of God as a father figure. Certainly some do, but I don't think it is anywhere near as common as the opposite, viewing the female forms of God as a mother.

I personally don't really view the male deities as a father figure. Like Minotaur said, they are more like role models, great divine beings that protect, create, bless, etc., but not exactly "dad" figures. On the other hand, I certainly view Devi as a loving and protecting mother. In all Her different forms She is a loving, powerful, compassionate mother who is always there and ready to embrace us with Her divine love and protection, as well as a symbol of fertility and creation.

However, as Ganeshprasadji points out, I don't think it can be emphasized enough that ultimately God is genderless, above and beyond all forms of gender.

Jai Sri Ram

[kallol]

Dear DK,

You have raised a good question which will provoke emotional thoughts and questions in many.

The fact of trying to search God external to our body leads to depending on the five physical senses, we have. That is why mostly we put God in a Mother or a Father or in something else.

In hinduism we are encouraged to search for God within ourself. That way one reaches the mind and starts digging it for the answer.

Mind is a neutral entity whereas body is the packaging over the mind. The body has gender but the mind does not. Body has shape, size, space location.

Do we know the shape, size or the space location of the mind ? No.

Mind enables the body. Who enables the mind ? It is the consciousness or "I".

The exploration of the mind and through it the "I", leads one to God.

Once we understand this knowledge, we use our senses in a better way to appreciate the true nature of the ecology outside my body.

That is how, in Hinduism, we see God in all (packagings), as all these bodies contain mind, which is the medium for consciousness reflecting into the body.

It does not matter whether the body is inert or living, male or female, as they are the properties of the body and not the mind and thereby the God.

Love and best wishes

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I'm with Ramakrishna. I can't ever remember viewing God as a father figure. I had a father for that. Although it may sound silly, I view God as God. Far far beyond father figure ... All-encompassing energy, Primal Soul, The Cause, omniscient (as Primal Soul) The Doer, The Helper, The Manager of His Universe, and more, but its too early here for mind concoctions. Oh yeah, ... also He Who is Beyond Mind.

Aum Namasivaya