Suffering?

[iksvakave]

Here is something I found about gunas of god.
~Names Meanings
Achala Still Lord
Achyuta Infallible Lord
Adbhutah Wonderful God
Adidev The Lord of the Lords
Aditya the Son of Aditi
Ajanma One Who Is Limitless and Endless
Ajaya the Conqueror of Life and Death
Akshara Indestructible Lord
Amrut One Who Is Sweet as Nectar
Anaadih One Who Is the First Cause
Anandsagar Compassionate Lord
Ananta the Endless Lord
Anantajit Ever Victorious Lord
Anaya One Who Has No Leader
Aniruddha One Who Cannot Be Obstructed
Aparajeet the Lord Who Cannot Be Defeated
Avyukta One Who Is As Clear As Crystal
Balgopal the Child Krishna, the All Attractive
Bali the Lord of Strength
Chaturbhuj Four-Armed Lord
Danavendra Granter of Boons
Dayalu Repository of Compassion
Dayanidhi the Compassionate Lord
Devadidev the God of the Gods
Devakinandan Son of Mother Devaki
Devesh Lord of the Lords
Dharmadhyaksha the Lord OF Dharma
Dwarkapati Lord of Dwarka
Gopal One Who Plays With the Cowherds, the Gopas
Gopalpriya Lover of Cowherds
Govinda One who pleases the Cows and the Nature.
Gyaneshwar the Lord of Knowledge
Hari the Lord of Nature
Hiranyagarbha the All Powerful Creator
Hrishikesh the Lord of All Senses
Jagadguru Preceptor of the Universe
Jagadisha Protector of All
Jagannath Lord of the Universe
Janardhana One Who Bestows Boons on One And All
Jayantah Conqueror of All Enemies
Jyotiraaditya the Resplendence of the Sun
Kamalnath the Lord of Goddess Lakshmi
Kamalnayan the Lord with Lotus Shaped Eyes
Kamsantak Slayer of Kamsa
Kanjalochana the Lotus-Eyed God
Keshava One Who Has Long, Black Matted Locks
Krishna Dark-Complexioned Lord
Lakshmikantam the Lord of Goddess Lakshmi
Lokadhyaksha Lord of All the Three Lokas (Worlds)
Madan the Lord of Love
Madhava Knowledge Filled God
Madhusudan Slayer of Demon Madhu
Mahendra Lord of Indra
Manmohan All Pleasing Lord
Manohar Beautiful Lord
Mayur the Lord Who Has A Peacock Feathered-Crest
Mohan All Attractive God
Murali the Flute Playing Lord
Murlidhar One Who Holds the Flute
Murlimanohar the Flute Playing God
Nandgopala the Son of Nand
Narayana the Refuge of Everyone
Niranjana the Unblemished Lord
Nirguna without Any Properties
Padmahasta One Who Has Hands like Lotus
Padmanabha the Lord Who Has a Lotus Shaped Navel
Parabrahmana the Supreme Absolute Truth
Paramatma Lord of All Beings
Parampurush Supreme Personality
Parthasarthi Charioteer of Partha - Arjuna
Prajapati Lord of All Creatures
Punyah Supremely Pure
Purshottam the Supreme Soul
Ravilochana One who's Eye Is the Sun
Sahasraakash Thousand-Eyed Lord
Sahasrajit One Who Vanquishes Thousands
Sahasrapaat Thousand-Footed Lord
Sakshi All Witnessing Lord
Sanatana the Eternal Lord
Sarvajana Omniscient Lord
Sarvapalaka Protector of All
Sarveshwar Lord of All Gods
Satyavachana One Who Speaks Only the Truth
Satyavrata the Truth Dedicated Lord
Shantah Peaceful Lord
Shreshta the Most Glorious Lord
Shrikanta Beautiful Lord
Shyam Dark-Complexioned Lord
Shyamsundara Lord of the Beautiful Evenings
Sudarshana Handsome Lord
Sumedha Intelligent Lord
Suresham Lord of All Demi-Gods
Swargapati Lord of Heavens
Trivikrama Conqueror of All the Three Worlds
Upendra Brother of Indra
Vaikunthanatha Lord of Vaikuntha, the Heavenly Abode
Vardhamaanah the Formless Lord
Vasudev All Prevailing Lord
Vishnu All Prevailing Lord
Vishwadakshinah Skilfull and Efficient Lord
Vishwakarma Creator of the Universe
Vishwamurti Form of the Entire Universe
Vishwarupa One Who Displays the Universal Form
Vishwatma Soul of the Universe
Vrishaparvaa Lord of Dharma
Yadavendra King of the Yadav Clan
Yogi the Supreme Master


Would you worship him if it said vishnu--- god who knows suffering? Shiva songs do talk about suffering. Vishnu's songs mostly about praise. Anyway, who wants to be with someone that also suffers? When you are worshipping you are looking for courage right? You want a god that understands. Do you want a god that is suffering with you or is uplifting you? I can tell you without a doubt in my mind he is closer to those who need him. Just as the way we are closer to people that need us in our lives.


Iksvakave

[yajvan]

　
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

You might find it hard to believe this but gods experience suffering etc.
I said take for example Rama. His life was filled with obstacles and challenges. In the end did he do justice for his wife? He faught for wife only to lose her again.

I think you may be mis-taken...the Divine, the Supreme does not suffer.
The adyātma rāmāyaṇa ( bālakanda section ) informs us, rāmāḥ is the Supreme Self, distinct from prakṛti. He is the one all-comprehending Being who is pure bliss itself and Spirit Supreme over all entities. He is unaffected by māyā, says the 20th śloka.


This is where suffering resides within the realm of boundaries; rāmāḥ is beyond this... from where can He be part of any suffering ? The 24th śloka says the lotused-eyed Lord ( rāmāḥ ) is the witness to ignornace and not a victim of it.

praṇām

[iksvakave]

I really don't know anything about scriptures but Rama does look like you and me right when he's on this earth. He is human. When you are in the human how can you not feel human desires, pain and attachment.

Why did shiva desire lakshmi during the churning of the ocean?
Why did vishnu dress like mohini (female character)?
Rama never for a second missed his wife when he was looking and fighting for her? There is also lakshman's relationship with Ram.
Why do they show hanuman is in rama's heart? What's hanuman's attachment to rama?
Why does krishna have two wives? Why is Krishna's love for radha more heard of?


How can a god who does not feel what a human feels understand a human? How can he be the compassionate god?

God is a supreme "being" in the end.

[iksvakave]

Oh and why would sita jump in the fire if she didn't feel anything?

Iksvakave

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

Perhaps you may be missing the teaching that is being offered by these devatā-s ?

rāmāḥ walks not, he sits not. He sorrows not, He desires not, He abandons not. There is no trace of any activity in Him... adyātma rāmāyaṇa ( bālakanda, 43rd śloka )

praṇām

[Adhvagat]

Is it right to say that God experiences suffering through us?

Aren't we a way of God perceiving himself? This lila is all about being incomplete to reach completeness once again.

[devotee]

You got it all wrong, Iksvakve. God, by definition, doesn't suffer. Ramavatar and Krishnavatar are exceptional and knowing the vritti of these avatars is not easy. They apparently act for the sake of "loksangrah" but actually they don't participate in any act.

Rama & Krishna choose to act as human beings. They have a status of seemingly "doing" but actually "not-doing anything". There is a perception of apparent action of enjoyment and sufferings but the real Rama or Krishna is the Vast Ocean of blissful absolute peace and that remains undisturbed.

If you have known Rama as the prince who wailed and cried for his missing wife and Shiva who got angry over the death of her wife and tried to destroyed the whole creation, dear Iksvakave, you have a very long way to go. There is an illusion of happening when in reality nothing is happening. It is like a role played in a dream .... the dreamer-actor in the dream appears to suffer and enjoy but in reality .... he is not at all affected by anything that happens within the dream-world.

There is blissful Rama and wailing and crying Rama simultaneously in all of us. How many of us know the real Rama who is peaceful and blissful when we all identify with the Rama who is wailing, crying or rejoicing.

Look at NayaSurya's signature. There are two birds .... one is just a witness when the other one rejoices and cries. There are not two birds ... in reality there is only one .... but we see/perceive two .... and that is Maya ... and the root-cause of all our sufferings.

OM

[satay]

namaste,

I really don't know anything about scriptures but

Well, this is a problem isn't it? I for one will go by what the scriptures say, no offence intended to you. When bhagwan says he is beyond guna I will take his word for it over yours.

Thanks,

[iksvakave]

Namaste Satay,

I love the way you quoted me inspite of everything I wrote:
I really don't know anything about the scriptures but.....

Got to love this site.

You may take whose ever word you like.
I actually see a lot of Jnanam in what you just wrote.

Devotee,

You are right I probably have it all mixed up. I like what you wrote in the end. Maya --- the root cause of all of our suffering.



Iksvakave

[grames]

Daer Satay,

What a question . Great answers from different people and especially liked the ones from Devotee and obilisk. Also, devotee asked for Dvita view and Satay wants the VA view. I am attempting to share what i have understood...

TattvaVada:

There is no suffering for God, He is Sat-Chit-Aananda and yes He is beyond all the MATERIAL guna, that He controls, maintains and destroys at His own will. There is no on above or on par with Him so nothing can be forced on Him and anything that He wish to experience is solely for His own pleasure by His own desire. Does He know how it is to feel the pain, love etc. Surely cos He is master of these gunas and He is the reservoir of all the guna and interestingly reservoir of opposing characteristics too (as in love and hatred, grace and punishment, mega and mini etc. ). You can understand His nature in minute proportion as, He is the one Who keeps all the groceries that are available in the entire universe, and you are the one who makes the shopping list for your desired meal. This is the root cause of Karma and the "attachment" to the bodily desire is the cause of suffering. ( So, He surely knows you are "suffering" but He does not undergo what He is master of). I think an analogy of Doctor is already given to support that idea. Since, He is always not attached to anything He is master of, ( which is again very natural) He is always free from all these and thus eternally full and youth with no misery etc.

matra-sparsas tu kaunteya
sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah
agamapayino 'nityas
tams titiksasva bharata BG 2.4

And removal of this attachment is jiva's effort and when jiva desire to get rid of the attachment, God showers His grace as He is the witness, He is the one who fulfill the desire of the Jiva being the Antrayamin. So, fulfilling the jiva's desire as per the qualification of the jiva is His loving nature.

raga-dvesa-vimuktais tu
visayan indriyais caran
atma-vasyair vidheyatma
prasadam adhigacchati BG-2.64

The jivas which are sattvic, desire nothing other than the grace of God, and thus performs Karma with out attachment ( and He gives them the ability to perform duties with out attachment - Being the svaTantra and jivas being dependent on Him to perform anything). The other two type of Jivas ( Rajasic and tamasmic) never desire to get rid of this attachment and even for such jivas, He is the only source from where they get all their desires fulfilled but in the opposite, viz. rajasic may or may not seek the Lord and Tamasic oppose the Lord and His devotees.

VA:

VA concept is almost the same but there is no classification of the soul as in TattvaVada. NityaSoories are the ones who are always attached to Lord Vishnu and thus never experience any material pleasure or pain. ( There is no spritual pain or pleasure and spiritual platform is always Ananda - everlasting pleasure). Jivas, when lacks the knowledge of Bagavan and the relationship with Bagavan, experience His prakriti and undergoes pain and pleasure derived out of attachement. Once the Jiva turns towards Hari, by His grace the DharmaBoota Gnana expands and gets eligibility to experience Ananda. Thus, He has no material pleasure or pain but as the Master of Prakriti, He knows Her full and the effects.

SO, suffering is in fact not a Guna but actually an effect. A devotee with steadfast focus on Lord will not get disturbed by the effects of his current environment and when the devotee surrenders, He surely protects.

In theistic schools, it is not very logical to consider Lord as mere human who undergoes Samsara ( and thus believing He is just a human, or Lord in Human body etc. and undergoes material pleasure or pain. Since He is above all these, He is always in His eternal FORM which is spiritual with no tinge of any material contamination). When it is understood that HE is beyond all material guna, there is no scope for seeking whether He knows our suffering or not by the means of knowing it by experience. He knows it by His perfect knowledge about everything in full. The perfect Lord knows everything that we undergo because He is the one who is the cause, effect and as well as the solution. He is the begining, middle and END.