Restrictions in Pancharatra Diksha based on Janma

[Sahasranama]

Diksha in vaishnavism is not meant for westerners. Here is pramanam from shashtra.

अथातः संप्रवक्ष्यामि वर्णाचारविधिक्रमम्।
ब्राह्मणः क्षत्रियो वैश्यः शूद्रश्चेति चतुर्विधाः॥
विष्णोः शरीरजाता वै मुखबाहूरुपादतः।
अत्रानुलोमजाः श्रेष्ठाः वर्ज्याश्च प्रतिलोमजाः॥
प्रतिलोमेषु सर्वेषु सूत एकस्तु गृह्यते।
न दातव्याः परे दीक्षां सर्वे च प्रतिलोमजाः।
न च संस्कारमर्हन्ति वर्णाश्रमबहिष्कृताः॥

Sanat Kumara Samhita.

Westerners who are interested in Hinduism should not seek diksha in vaishnavism, they may seek their path in Shaivism or Shaktims or can become unititated bhaktas who do nama parayana, but not the rituals of vaishnava agama or smarta/ shrauta.

[Eastern Mind]

Diksha in vaishnavism is not meant for westerners. Here is pramanam from shashtra.

अथातः संप्रवक्ष्यामि वर्णाचारविधिक्रमम्।
ब्राह्मणः क्षत्रियो वैश्यः शूद्रश्चेति चतुर्विधाः॥
विष्णोः शरीरजाता वै मुखबाहूरुपादतः।
अत्रानुलोमजाः श्रेष्ठाः वर्ज्याश्च प्रतिलोमजाः॥
प्रतिलोमेषु सर्वेषु सूत एकस्तु गृह्यते।
न दातव्याः परे दीक्षां सर्वे च प्रतिलोमजाः।
न च संस्कारमर्हन्ति वर्णाश्रमबहिष्कृताः॥

Sanat Kumara Samhita.

Westerners who are interested in Hinduism should not seek diksha in vaishnavism, they may seek their path in Shaivism or Shaktims or can become unititated bhaktas who do nama parayana, but not the rituals of vaishnava agama or smarta/ shrauta.

Vannakkam: Does ISKCON know this?

Aum Namasivaya

[Sahasranama]

I don't think they do, otherwise they wouldn't be so arrogantly boasting about their sampradaya. Chanting the names of Bhagavan is the main path in kali yuga and this is open to everyone, but vaishnava diksha is not for everyone. I have found that most western initiates in vaishnavism are arrogant anyway. A lot of them think they have more right to interpretate shastra than born Hindus. Even though they are not born in varnashrama dharma, they act like they are the highest brahmins. They even start quoting manu smriti, well if manu smriti was still valid I'd have to pour melted iron in their ears for listening to the vedas.

[charitra]

Again one should not generalize.
The founder of Himalayan academy had lived for years in SriLanka, similarly David Frawley and more recently Frank Morales have gone through the proper route and acharya status was conferred on them by the highest seats of Hinduism. Once having become ‘proper’ acharyas they now can start missions and train others on their own. Prabhupada led the way initiating and later confirming acharyahood or equivalents to many western vaishnavas. God bless him. Having accomplished once gurudom westerners can claim adhikhara just like deshi gurus. There is no difference whatsoever. Even vivekanada took a few sishyas under his wings in Chicago in 1890s.

Recently the shankaracharya of sringerimath had made a trip to kerala ‘hugging amma’s ashram by himself and gave her his blessings and praised her work. The pontiff had recognized her religious status as a saint in public view. She was not specifically trained in any ashram, this iam not so sure though. Recently passed Puttaparthy saibaba didn’t go through the process of initiation. Some self realized individuals will make an exception to the prescribed path to transform in to a guru/swami and can bypass it altogether, although they are very rare. Iam sure others have more info on how one can become an acharya, guru or swami. Namaste.

[Sahasranama]

I don't think you understand me, I am not against westerners practicing Sanatana Dharma, but there are certain limitations when it comes to initiation and rituals. Pancharatra initiation is only meant for people who are born brahmin, kshatriya, vaishya or shudra. Anuloma is when the father is of higher caste than the mother, in this case the child takes the caste of the father like Vyasa etc. Suta is when the father is kshatriya and the mother a brahmin. Sutas traditionally were narrators of the itihasas and puranas. These are all allowed to get initiated in pancharatra agama. Pratiloma (when the mother is higher caste than the father) and mlecchas are not allowed to get initiated in pancaratra. This is said in the verses I have posted above from the Sanatkumara Samhita, an important pancaratra text. Pancharatra initiation itself is a system that is meant for people who are born in varnashrama dharma, but have fallen from it as is stated in the Shiva Purana (Suta Samhita). But as is stated in the pancharatra agamas themselves, they are not meant for people outside the varnashrama dharma like the "hare krishnas" and some other white vaishnavas. Dvijas in the past followed Vaishnava systems like vaikhanas, sattvata which were completely vedic and not agamic, but this tradition has become scarce just like the shrauta tradition of the south Indian brahmins.

The founder of himalayan foundation is a Shaiva, certain sects of Shaivism are open to all people. But pancharatra initiation is not, therefore people like Frank Morales should have never been initiated in them. David Frawley is different, because he is not a vaishnava. He is more a yoga, ayurveda practicioner with a scholarly interest in the vedas. Western vaishnavas can chant Hare Krishna and live pious devoted lives, but when they start practicing pancaratra initiation and shrauta/smarta rituals, they are stepping outside their boundaries. They should also not pretend to be the highest brahmins who are above Hindus, because of their self styled sampradayas. They did not have the adhikara to get initiated in pancharatra in the first place.

[charitra]

The founder of himalayan foundation is a Shaiva, certain sects of Shaivism are open to all people. But pancharatra is not, therefore people like Frank Morales should have never been initiated in them. .

by your own admission shaivites are more generous and inclusive whereas vaishnavites aren't. Hmmm. As a venkateswara disciple, you dont sound right to me. But Acharya Frank Morales will make a great disciple and acharya of all avatars.

[NayaSurya]

You say this is SanatKumara Samhita.

Then could you please show me this phrase you posted in the text, or is this site nepharious and I should no longer use to get documents?

http://www.bvml.org/VS/SSK_sss.html

and if this site is not correct, please show me online this text if you have one?

[Sahasranama]

You say this is SanatKumara Samhita.

Then could you please show me this phrase you posted in the text, or is this site nepharious and I should no longer use to get documents?

http://www.bvml.org/VS/SSK_sss.html

and if this site is not correct, please show me online this text if you have one?

These come from kamakoti mandala:
http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

[NayaSurya]

These words within the blog, are no where inside the translated text which I found online at the website I posted. Are there two such texts named the same thing?

You know my favorite verses from Sri SanatKumara Samhita from the site I post?

37
na purascaranapeksha
nasya nyasa-vidhi-kramah
na desa-kala-niyamo
nari-mitradi-sodhanam


In chanting these mantras there is no need of purscarana, nyasa, ari-suddhi, mitra-suddhi, or other kinds of purification. In chanting these mantras there is no restriction of time or place.
38
sarve 'dhikarinas catra
candalanta munisvarah
striyah sudradayas capi
jada-mukandha-pungavah
All, from the lowest outcaste to the greatest sage, are eligible to chant this mantra. Women, sudras, and all others are eligible. The paralyzed, mute, blind, and lame are eligible.

39
andhra hunah kiratas ca
pulindah pukkasas tatha
abhira yavanah kankah
khasadyah papa-yonayah

The Andhras, Hunas, Kiratas, Pulindas, Pukkasas, Abhiras, Yavanas, Kankas, Khasas, and all others born from sinful wombs are also eligible.

40
dambhahankara-paramah
papa-paisunya-tat-parah
go-brahmananam hantaro
mahopapatakanvitah

They who are overcome with pride and ego, who are intent on committing sins, who are killers of cows and brahmanas, and who are the greatest of sinners, are also eligible.

41
jnana-vairagya-rahitah
sravanadi-vivarjitah
ete canye ca sarve syur
asyadhikarino mune

They who have neither knowledge nor renunciation, they who have never studied the sruti-sastra and other scriptures, and all others, whoever they may be, are also all eligible to chant these mantras.

42
yadi bhaktir bhaved esham
krishne sarvesvaresvare
tadadhikarinah sarve
nanyatha muni-sattamah
Anyone who has devotion for Lord Krishna, the master of all masters, is eligible to chant these mantras, but they who have no devotion, even they may be the greatest of sages, are not eligible.

[Sahasranama]

That is only a translation of one chapter. ISCKON often translates only one chapter of a text. They have also only published one chapter of the Brahma Samhita, an important text in gaudiya vaishnavism. Nama parayana (chanting names) and bhakti are not limited to varnashrama dharma. That's not what I wanted to say. I am specifically talking about initiation (diksha) into pancharatra agama with pancha sanskara (tapa, pundram, dasya nama, mantra upadesha and yaga) which is only reserved for people who are born within the matrix of varnashrama dharma.