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Thread: Restrictions in Pancharatra Diksha based on Janma

  1. #31
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    Re: Vaishnava Deeksha, not meant for westerners

    Pranam Devotee ji

    Jati and varna is interchangeable insert caste and we have a cocktail no one understands.

    if birth has nothing to do with guna and karma i can understand your position, to each to their own, unfortunately birth is not an accident thus we will always have this argument. the position you hold will pose a lot of question as to how and what authority will decide the varna of an individual? bearing in mind it is not something that one can change at the whim of someone desires. nor it is the modern day education that decides varna, it only adds to the confusion.

    i was hoping we do not go the route of debating varna unfortunately it where it has headed.

    i just leave one example, those who train the race horses knows what it means to mate with through bread.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #32
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    Re: Vaishnava Deeksha, not meant for westerners

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam Devotee ji

    Jati and varna is interchangeable insert caste and we have a cocktail no one understands.

    if birth has nothing to do with guna and karma i can understand your position, to each to their own, unfortunately birth is not an accident thus we will always have this argument. the position you hold will pose a lot of question as to how and what authority will decide the varna of an individual? bearing in mind it is not something that one can change at the whim of someone desires. nor it is the modern day education that decides varna, it only adds to the confusion.

    i was hoping we do not go the route of debating varna unfortunately it where it has headed.

    i just leave one example, those who train the race horses knows what it means to mate with through bread.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Namaste GaneshPrasad ji,

    I would better not like to discuss this topic with you, whom I consider a good friend on this forum .... at least not being on opposite sides.

    However, as you have raised this issue, I would advise you to go through the history of Hindus and Shastras I referred to & you would find that what I am saying is true. Jaati and varna are not synonyms particularly in jaatis belonging to varnas lower than Brahmins. Historically, Brahmins caste didn't follow the other castes belonging to lower Varnas. So, if you are talking of purity of Vanshanukrama, it can be said so only about Brahmins.

    .... and my opposition is not against caste/Varna system in whatever form we have in India. My objection is towards hatred being spread against good souls just because they are not born-Hindus and that will always remain. This is sheer racism and nothing else. Why there is no resident Indian Hindu here who is so much opposed to so-called Westerners ? Why is this tendency seen only in Hindus who have settled in the west ? Eat west, read west & speak only ill of the west ! This is no gentlemanship.

    ... and the Shastras ar e being twisted to give the meaning to demean the western Hindus --- Manusmriti itself tells us that many invader tribes who won in the wars and became rulers were assimilated into Hindu society as Kshatriyas. We have historical facts that castes were not water-proof and people were accepted in castes depending on their occupations and their status in the society. In fact, there are many Shudra castes even today who claim to be counted as Kshatriyas. This is because at some point of time in the history their ancestors were the rulers and they were considered Kshatriyas due to their status and their being the rulers. The latest in the case was Kshatrapati Shivaji. However, this didn't apply to the Brahmin caste.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #33
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    Re: Vaishnava Deeksha, not meant for westerners

    Pranam Devotee ji

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste GaneshPrasad ji,

    I would better not like to discuss this topic with you, whom I consider a good friend on this forum .... at least not being on opposite sides.
    Thanks my friend, i see no wrong in discussing anything so long as it is done in mutual respect.

    However, as you have raised this issue, I would advise you to go through the history of Hindus and Shastras I referred to & you would find that what I am saying is true. Jaati and varna are not synonyms particularly in jaatis belonging to varnas lower than Brahmins. Historically, Brahmins caste didn't follow the other castes belonging to lower Varnas. So, if you are talking of purity of Vanshanukrama, it can be said so only about Brahmins.
    that may very well be true but then we are probably talking about history in this Kali yug perhaps in last 2000 years or so. Tulsidas writes This yug is store house of impurity, sudra will instruct the brahmin etc.

    So Saha, when he quotes this thread perhaps what he see is this trend which i have experienced my self also, that this new Gurus look down upon the Hindus.

    .... and my opposition is not against caste/Varna system in whatever form we have in India. My objection is towards hatred being spread against good souls just because they are not born-Hindus and that will always remain. This is sheer racism and nothing else. Why there is no resident Indian Hindu here who is so much opposed to so-called Westerners ? Why is this tendency seen only in Hindus who have settled in the west ? Eat west, read west & speak only ill of the west ! This is no gentlemanship.
    yes there is no room for hatred, Lord Shree Krishna warns us many times, it is the desires and hate that binds one to this sansra.

    Indians in India are too busy either trying to make ends meet or trying to emulate the west. those of us who stay in the west are perhaps becoming aware of the west and their agenda, we can also tell they come with baggage of their own cultures and some times their own superiority complex is clear for us to see. there is no question of hate, in this case to highlight their short comings.

    .

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  4. #34
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    Re: Vaishnava Deeksha, not meant for westerners

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