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Thread: Are Tantra really powerful or is it a placebo

  1. #1

    Are Tantra really powerful or is it a placebo

    When I say placebo,it means that it just helps you "feel" a particular way(negative or positive).Like say when you do a tantric ritual for well being,you tend to feel that you're getting better even though nothing really happens

    Is Tantra just a placebo or is it powerful?

    Here is a video clip of Tantra challenge given by Sanal Edamaruku with a Tantrik.Sanal is the president of Rantionalist association.The tantrik says that he would kill him using his tantra.This was aired on India TV on 2008

    The tantrik tries so many mantras and rituals but fails.Sanal ended up coming hale and healthy after the challenge

    Here is the video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmo1a-bimAM


    Is tantra really powerful or just a placebo?

  2. #2
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    Re: Are Tantra really powerful or is it a placebo

    Namaste all.

    I realise this thread is 2 years old and has no answers, but often the best answers to these questions take a lot of time (even though the OP is probably no longer among our ranks).

    So I thought I'd give a general outline of Tantra here, in this thread, to dispel any myths and misconceptions about the practice.

    I notice the name of the OP - 'The Occult'.

    It is often believed among superstitious Hindus, that Tantra means 'black magic' or 'sex yoga' or something of that sort.

    They believe that by practicing Tantra, they will gain Siddhis (supernatural powers) or be good lovers in bed and all that kind of stuff. They become attached to their powers...to their base desires.

    That's all just a huge 'ego trip' and it's more of the Maya or the power of the Divine Goddess which veils the mind and senses into numbness.

    Tantra is a very complex science and practice. Some may see pictures of Lord Shiva and Parvati making love and go 'oooh...raunchy! let's so do that'.

    In fact, there's nothing really physical about any of it.

    Shiva is the Supreme Lord, He is both the 'potent' and the 'latent'. One cannot realise Him through His energy alone (mainly because He doesn't really have any). His Energy is Shakti (Shakti = Energy). The Divine Mother is both the 'intent' and 'accomplishment' of Shiva's latency.

    So, to realise Lord Shiva and to practice Tantra, requires worshiping the Mother through Her union with Shiva - that union being entirely symbolic.

    Is Tantra a 'placebo'? One must first ask 'placebo for what?' before replying 'of course not'.

    When I practice Tantra, I don't think about sex or black magic - those things are the very furthest from my mind. I focus on the concealing/revealing of this material universe through the combined functions of 'the physics of Tantra'...ShivaShakti.

    Is it very powerful? Why, yes it is! It is totally amazing!

    As long as one doesn't get stuck performing magic shows on TV like trying to kill somebody with their thoughts. Why not try and heal a terminally ill person through their thoughts? It may have worked then...

    Even so, if Mother was to grant me a 'Siddhi', I would most definitely say "thanks, but no thanks". I don't need yet another thing standing in the way between myself and Shiva - the only thing I allow to do that is Devi Herself...I mean, She is His 'wife' after all.

    So, while ever Shakti is away from Shiva, nobody can approach Him.

    It's only at those times when She is in unison with Him, merged into Him and with Him that the aspirant can see that 'hole in the veil' which will lead to Lord Shiva...when He becomes like this:



    That's what Tantra is. It does include things like Kundalini Yoga and various extreme, esoteric practice, but that comes with a lot of self-discipline, purification techniques, meditation techniques and the aim to be totally desireless - even wanting to reach Lord Shiva or raise Kundalini in the first place - desireless.

    I have read many, many times 'Oh why can't I raise Kundalini? I have spent 10 years of my life doing Yoga, so why?'

    To which I say 'it's because you want to. You have to not want to before that can happen. That's what Tantra is.

    Aum Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by Necromancer; 17 September 2013 at 06:02 AM.

  3. #3

    Re: Are Tantra really powerful or is it a placebo

    Namaste,

    Indeed, there will always be those who are driven by a materialistic,
    "deity-as-vending-machine" mindset, who are fascinated by anything
    which contains elements of esotericism, "forbidden knowledge", and
    the theme of the supremacy of self-will. This gross error leads always
    to failure and misery; even those who hide from themselves their
    desire for siddhis etc. will find nothing but frustration, as the seed of
    their intent is no more hidden from Devi, than the nose on their face.

    What should be known as a test for weeding out those who are unfit
    for initiation in Tantra Sadhana, is embraced by those very same unfit,
    most visibly manifested as a parade of charlatans, con artists, and the deeply deluded.

    Of course, if Devi did not wish Tantra to be a pamplisest, it would not be so
    || जय माता की ||

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    Re: Are Tantra really powerful or is it a placebo

    Quote Originally Posted by JaiMaaDurga View Post
    Namaste,

    Indeed, there will always be those who are driven by a materialistic,
    "deity-as-vending-machine" mindset, who are fascinated by anything
    which contains elements of esotericism, "forbidden knowledge", and
    the theme of the supremacy of self-will. This gross error leads always
    to failure and misery; even those who hide from themselves their
    desire for siddhis etc. will find nothing but frustration, as the seed of
    their intent is no more hidden from Devi, than the nose on their face.

    What should be known as a test for weeding out those who are unfit
    for initiation in Tantra Sadhana, is embraced by those very same unfit,
    most visibly manifested as a parade of charlatans, con artists, and the deeply deluded.

    Of course, if Devi did not wish Tantra to be a pamplisest, it would not be so
    Namaste.

    So true.

    I just learned a new word today - pamplisest (I had to go and look that one up).

    A document that can be erased and re-written.

    I am not too sure how that fits here, but I can go with it. We all must be 'erased' before the Goddess can write a new story in our hearts.

    People look for the 'easy way' when it comes to spiritual practice and there is no 'easy way'.

    She knows what is inside - what we try and hide. Mother will break us down over...and over...

    Aum Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Are Tantra really powerful or is it a placebo

    Namaste Necromancer

    Quote Necromancer: We all must be 'erased' before the Goddess can write a new story in our hearts.
    VERY good Necromancer. I think there is a divine spark in that quote. One for the record.

    Om Namah Sivaya

  6. #6

    Re: Are Tantra really powerful or is it a placebo

    Quote Originally Posted by The Occult View Post
    When I say placebo,it means that it just helps you "feel" a particular way(negative or positive).Like say when you do a tantric ritual for well being,you tend to feel that you're getting better even though nothing really happens

    Is Tantra just a placebo or is it powerful?

    Here is a video clip of Tantra challenge given by Sanal Edamaruku with a Tantrik.Sanal is the president of Rantionalist association.The tantrik says that he would kill him using his tantra.This was aired on India TV on 2008

    The tantrik tries so many mantras and rituals but fails.Sanal ended up coming hale and healthy after the challenge

    Here is the video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmo1a-bimAM


    Is tantra really powerful or just a placebo?
    This proves little either way. When a particular airplane is unable to lift off it does not disprove the ability planes to fly. A scientist will quickly point out that this airplane was faulty or conditions were preventing flight.

    Both atheists and religious people like to place meaning far beyond what is actually proven. I distrust all people that enforce their viewpoints on me with their so called "evidence".

    So called Sceptics are not sceptics at all. A real sceptic challenges his own notions, not that of others.

    [I find it strange that I cannot comment on the Video because the poster wants to review my reactions first. ]
    ---

    I am very wary about so called sceptics. Why? Because they do not have an open mind. They want to prove their view. It is well established that in social sciences creating experiments to prove a view invariably leads to affirmation. But when experiments are devised to prove the opposite we find affirmation too.

    This is nothing but an intent to manipulate opinion. It is used by both the religious and the irreligious.

    ---

    Is Tantra just a placebo or is it powerful?
    These words tell to what degree people have been indoctrinated by "scientism". Scientism is not the same as science. Real science is open-minded, it does not want to prove or disprove theories. Scientism want to establish material thinking ("Naturalism") as a replacement for a view in which consciousness plays a role too.

    The fact of the matter is that modern science has big holes.
    • It can not explain things like consciousness. So it is simply left out of the equation. It uses the unproven and false assumption that if one can explain something without something else this means that this something else has no explaining power. That is nonsense, it completely ignores the fact that human imagination can explain things in endless ways, and simple explanations often only are the product of simple minds and complicated explanations are the product of people making explaining into occupation.
    • Science can not understand lots of things and then simply throws them in a big container called: randomness, coincidence. Which simply is a way to hide ones lack of understanding. In the same way religious people like to put what they do not understand in the big container of God. "Why is this? it is the work of God!" Those people hide their lack of understanding in the same way. But "coincidence" is the God of science that explains all things not understood. Intellectuals create the illusion that things are understood if you put a label on them. that is lie they do not see through themselves.
    • Modern science is a tool. It purposely ignores a lot of information, because it is only interested in events that are repeatable, not random, have nice patterns, so it has prediction power. This knowledge is useful, but it is not by far the whole picture. Religion is the same way, it was developed by the same intellectuals. The prediction power of science is not the product of truthfulness, but by selectiveness.
    A real open-minded person is neither impressed by sceptics trying to proof everything in life is material, or by religious intellectual trying to proof things from quoting books. A real researcher of reality bases himself on his own experience first. Nor does he want to hold on to fixed ideas.

    So can we influence people without material intervention? Sure we can! Our mind definitely has this power. This proven by science too. In fact as science becomes more subtle it discovers amazing thing. For instance that our finger tips can feel nano-size structures. Or that DNA strands influence each other without any chemical contact, etc. Our reality is much more subtle that both scientific an religious intellectuals want to believe.

    Intellectuals are thought to be intelligent, but are actually people that lack subtle experience of sense and try to replace this omission by rationalizing. As consciousness is declining we will see ever more over-rationalizing people. We can see that in a growth of both autism and psychopathy.

    Both of these people have deficiencies in subtle awareness of the environment. The autistic finds it hard to communicate and understand subtle emotions. The psychopath has in impaired sensory organs. It is now found that psychopaths have for instance a very bad smelling organs. These people compensate this by unfeeling rationalizing.

    Autistic and Psychopath people have played a mayor role in religious fanaticism and persecution. They create theories in which everything is rationalized and then act on those theories without any compassion.

    Thoughts do kill people! We only have to study how Hitlers ideas led to the destruction of millions. It is immaterial whether Hitler transmitted his thoughts by sound waves, paper alone or he influenced other people directly. The effect is undeniable.

    There is a direct effect too. That is why we talk about atmosphere in places where people gather. We pick this up and we feel this. We influence each other in may subtle ways. As science will becomes more able to pick up subtle transmissions it will be able to identify these influences. But that is not the victory of materialistic thought over spiritual thought at all. On the contrary, it only proves the spiritual people were right all along, and that they knew these things long before the scientist could accept their existence.

    Things like elektro-magnetic fields and probability are now accepted by science but that does not make them materialistic. But intellectuals have this habit to take over ideas of others and them make it seem like it was their possession all along and a proof of their thinking. It is all self-deceit.

    So what is proved in this video? that one particular guy can not kill another particular guy by his tantra. Nothing less, nothing more.

    But the effects are real, they are so real that science had to give it a name: they called it placebo. Placebo-effects are not only real they are very strong effects too. So strong that without it modern medicine would only work in 0-15% of the cases. For modern medicine works on average in 25-40% of cases. In 10% it has averse effects. in 50-65% it does have no effect. But Placebo alone works very reliably in 25% of cases! And then we still have to factor in that modern medicine only works well on short term, in long term the body start counter acting it and all kind of undesirable side effects are produced. Placebo is a word devised to make it look unimportant, "immaterial". A better name would be psychic effects. But that name would force Naturalist scientists to accept something they fiercely want to deny! The influence of the mind over the body.

    But this brainwash has allowed pharmaceutical industry to become the monopolist in dealing drugs. In my country alone 2 out of 17 million people are addicted to tranquilizers. But research shows only 30.000 really need them, the rest has become addicted. They make billions of this drug addiction. But when people try to use natural solutions well proven in age old practice, sceptics come to disqualify them. In my county it is now even forbidden to put on a label on a bottle of natural medicine what it does, if it is not a pharmaceutical product. It is the pharmaceutical industry that created all these very harmful addictive drugs like Heroin, LSD, Meth etc. In the same way as the food industry is poisoning people with sugar to keep them hooked. But it is all done in the name of science.

    Like mayor religions trying to wipe out paganism in the name of God, industry is trying to wipe out the competition by all means. One of the means is trying to make other sources of knowledge seem primitive and a scam. Sure there are many scammers, but the biggest scammers are those that want to rid the competition by claiming to have the only right view.

    Trying to disprove others is simply mental laziness.
    If you want to be a real sceptic,
    continuously try to to disprove your own beliefs!

    But we are not educating people to do that. We are educating them to eat preprocessed food, both materially and mentally. The school system is bringing down the Human mind.
    Last edited by Avyaydya; 20 September 2013 at 09:56 PM.

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