Searching for Elaboration

[Kismet]

Namaste,

I am wondering if any devotees could elaborate more on this particular thing I heard:

"The reason for being so cautious in chanting japa is because the Holy Name is a desire tree and if we chant it impurely we will find those impure desires manifesting in our lives, causing further entanglement."


Is this really true? If so, then, with all due respect, it may account for how awry my life has gone (in this life!).



Prior to this I had sort of assumed japa (especially the Hare Krsna Mahamantra was all-purifying. That even dogs could chant it (theoretically, anyways) and gain real spiritual benefit.

[devotee]

I am wondering if any devotees could elaborate more on this particular thing I heard:

"The reason for being so cautious in chanting japa is because the Holy Name is a desire tree and if we chant it impurely we will find those impure desires manifesting in our lives, causing further entanglement."


Is this really true? If so, then, with all due respect, it may account for how awry my life has gone (in this life!).



Prior to this I had sort of assumed japa (especially the Hare Krsna Mahamantra was all-purifying. That even dogs could chant it (theoretically, anyways) and gain real spiritual benefit.

So, you are losing your sleep over some stupid hearsay ! ... but why do you want us to drag into that mesh ??

OM

[Kismet]

So, you are losing your sleep over some stupid hearsay ! ... but why do you want us to drag into that mesh ??

OM

Oh, thank the Lord! It's only some stupid hearsay! Okay, thanks, that's all I needed.

[smaranam]

Namaste

Have you heard of Vaishnav aparadh being like a mad elephant destroying the bhakti-latA (creeper of devotion) ? i am not sure of material difficulties though.

Mahamantra is for kali yug and Lord Chaitanya added mercy, but there are 10 offenses to the holy names to be avoided, there are regulative principles, and offenses (but particularly not following the reg. principles ) will check spiritual advancement.

PrabhupAd said beginners should worship Gaur-Nitai (merciful incarnations) as Radha-Krishna worship should be without offenses.

Gaurhari Dasanudas Babaji (disciple of Shrila A C Bhaktivedanta Swami PrabhupAd) asks beginners to chant the dvadaskakshari mantra "om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya" instead of KrushNa mahamantra, because the former addresses Krushna in Dwarka (everyone's KrushNa and svakiya ras)
whereas the latter addresses the most confidential VrundAvan dhAm.

The dvadashakshari mantra does not take offenses much acc. to him. There is a group following Late Smt. Lilatai Karve that chants the dvadashakshari, and worships dwarkadheesh as yogeshwar KrushNa. (They say "All glories to Dwarkadheesh).

However, you may want to talk to senior devotees who are very familiar with NAmaPrabhu (Deity of the Holy Names of Shri KrushNa)

Hare KRSNa
praNAm

**** PS: Adhering to the idea that all are equal to the Supreme Lord, Advaita philosophy, or the Supreme Lord VishNu is the same as everyone else including anya devatA (i.e. non VishNu tattva), is a major offense to the Holy Names. nAmaparAdh.

[Kismet]

Thanks Smaranam,

Another piece to the puzzle I suppose. I just feel so comfortable chanting the maha-mantra now. My behavior though, let's just say is rather at odds. Well, changes will either happen or not. I can't really tell at this point.

And, I am not a pure Advaitin by the way. I think I am drawing closer and closer to the Achintya-Bheda-Abheda view. I believe in an INCONCEIVABLE oneness AND difference... It's neither fully one or the other....and ultimately both...

I am not Krishna. But I am still identical with him at some level. I think this is fairly obvious from my reading of the Vishnu Purana. And also my own experience.

[devotee]

Namaste Kismet,

In Sanatan Dharma there are many such hearsay which you should guard against. I use the test of Upanishads whenever in doubt ... that is the test is the acid test ... accept the authority of the Vedas. Let's see what Kali Santarana Upnishad says on this Mahamantra :

Kali Santarana Upanishad


hari om. dvaparante narada brahmanam
jagama katham bhagavan gam
paryatana kalim santareyam iti. [1]

"Hari Om! After travelling all over the world, Shrila Narada Muni approached Lord Brahma (his own father and guru) during the time when Dvapara-yuga was about to end. He asked him, “O Lord! How will all the living entities be able to deliver themselves from the most degraded age of Kali which is about to begin.”

sa hovaca. brahma sadhu prishto’smi
sarva shruti rahasyam gopyam tac
chrinu yena kali samsaram tarishyasi.[2]

Lord Brahma replied, “You have asked the most important and relevant question for the benefit of humanity. I will tell you now the most concealed secret of the Vedic literatures, with the help of which everyone can easily cross this most dangerous age of Kali.

bhagavata adi purushasya narayanasya
namoccharana matrena nirdhta kalir bhavati [3]

“Simply by chanting the transcendental names of the original enjoyer and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Narayana, all the sins will be cleansed in Kali-yuga.”

narada punah papraccha tan nama kim iti.[4]

Narada Muni again asked,“Which are those specific names of the Lord which are most effective in Kali-yuga?”

sa hovaca hiranyagarbah
hare krishna hare krishna, krishna krishna hare hare.
hare rama hare rama, rama rama hare hare; [5]

iti shodashakam namnam, kali-kalmasha-nashanam;
natah parataropayah, sarva-vedeshu drishyate. [6]

Lord Brahma replied, “The sixteen words-Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna
Krishna, Hare Hare; Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare-are especially meant for completely destroying all the contamination of Kali. To save oneself from the contamination of Kali-yuga, there is no alternative in all theVedas except the chanting of this sixteen-word mantra.


iti shodasha kalasya jivasyavarana vinashanam;
tatah prakashate para brahma medhapaye
ravi rashmi mandali veti. [7]

“This maha-mantra consisting of sixteen names of Krishna is the destroyer of the (16-layered) illusory covering of all the living entities. Only when the coverings are destroyed, Lord Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear in the heart of the living entities, just like the sun appears with full intensity when the clouds are removed.”

punar narada prapaccha bhagavan kasya vidhi-riti [8]

Shri Narada again inquired from Lord Brahma-“What are the procedures and rules for chanting this maha-mantra?”

tam hovaca nasya vidhi-riti
sarvada shuci-ashucira va pathan
brahmanam salokya samipya
sarupatam sayujyatam eti. [9]

Lord Brahma replied, “There are no rules and regulations to chant this maha-mantra. It should be chanted always irrespective of whether one is in a pure or impure condition.

yadasya shodashikasya sardha trikotir japati.
tada brahma hatyam tarati vira hatyam.
svarna steyat puto bhavati. pitrideva
manushyanam apakarat puto bhavati. [10]

“When one chants the 16 names of the maha-mantra 35 million times (sardha trikotir), he absolves himself of the sins of killing a brahmana or a kshatriya, stealing of gold or engaging in harmful activities towards one’s forefathers or other living entities.

sarva dharma parityaga papat sadyah sucitamapnuyat. sadyo mucyate sadyo mucyate ity upanishat. [11]

“By chanting the maha-mantra, one becomes quickly purified from all sins accumulated due to rejecting all of one’s duties in our past lives. Thus the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, is the only means, the only means, the only means of thoroughly and immediately purifying oneself in Kali-yuga. Thus ends the Kali-santarana Upanishad.”


See the portion marked in red above which answers your doubts.

OM

[anirvan]

During chanting any mantra and in any disciplines like tantra,yoga or devotion,
only one principle works.that is kundalini awakens and ascend to sahasrara(crown chakra) and absorbed with supreme. That supreme may be krishna,siva,Rama ,advita etc according to one"s bhava.

All mantras are dead as such.when accepted by sadguru with proper rituals,it becomes alive.but again this alive mantra is able to work(become incorporated in our consciousness and act in spiritual advancement) when properly chanted.

And this needs perfect union at same time of 4 things in balanced state. These are mann(MIND),pawan(PRANA-RESPIRATION),siva(SAHASRARA),shakti(KUNDALINI).

Scriptures says with a single thing"s disturbance,even hundreds yrs of chanting will be fruitless and waste of time.

M

[smaranam]

In Sanatan Dharma there are many such hearsay which you should guard against.

Namaste DevoteeJi,

I posted the Kali Santarana the other day and bolded the same verse you have highlighted in red.

That is only talking about eligibility. However, there is more to the story. To cultivate pure Love of God, or nuture the bhakti latA (creeper) without weeds of aparAdh and material attachments , the chanting has to be without offenses or trying to minimize offenses.
That is namaparadh. Fortunately, namaparadh is said to reduce with persistent chanting. At the same time, offensive chanting will not let the devotee move further - as weeds will grow around the latA. This is the "further entanglement" Kismetji was talking about.

In any case, it is not hearsay.
-- The 10 Offenses to the Holy Names of Shri VishNu are from Padma PurAN.
-- The regulative principles are from BhAgvat.
-- The VaishNav aparadh applies to sadhu ninda - of pure devotees. The source of that is Lord Chaitanya Himself who compares it to a mad elephant entering a garden and destroying the latA.

These sources are backed by unanimous Guru AdnyA and experience in the VaishNav world. So although i am not qualified to say anything, i am only reporting what the devotees and Gurus have to say.

Hare KrushNa
praNAm

[smaranam]

P.S. The cure for weeds is careful chanting, sincerity and more offenseless chanting apparently. Also, if the aparadh is minor like occasional inattentive Harinam, following the rest of it will bring a lot more credit to quickly eliminate the minor offense AND purify the devotee a lot more. So it should not sound negative. That is why we are told "keep chanting"

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

I am with Devotee ji here, if there are constrains they are Samprdaya specific only,
How can Naam Take offense? It is pure untainted by any external influence.
In the Gita Krishna says he does not take any ones punya or paap.

Valmiki chanted in reverse yet he became a great Rishi,

Ajamil chanted Narayan calling out for his son at the time of his death and he was saved from Yamduta.

It is important we develop pure heart, pure love for the lord but in this age of Kali the pull of maya is very strong, when we chant our mind wonders, trick is to pull it back, that what Gita advises.

Offenses are as far as i am concerned scare tactics, i many times wonder should i worry about Vaishnava Aparadh or should i worry about Aparadh full stop.

Jai Shree Krishna