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Thread: Brahman, Prakriti and Jivas per Dvaita

  1. #11

    Re: Brahman, Prakriti and Jivas per Dvaita

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar_Das View Post
    - our own "eternity" is absent from us, but this mentioned eternity is through the sole eternity of the Lord, we are accessible to Him at all times
    Namaste Kumarji

    In other words, the embodied conditioned living entities are no doubt accessible to the Lord, (and He makes Himself accessible to them), but so are the liberated not-embodied "entities" in "co-ordinate space" of God ?

    What about them ? MAdhavAchArya's definition of mukti is the freedom from material vyAdhi, flaws, adhibhautik adhidaivik adhyAtmic sufferings, also birth-death, and onset of eternal bliss of associating with Shri Hari.

    This tells us that the liberated may have different consciousnesses - some are in Bramh-consciousness, some in eternal association of Hari, some in both. Individuals may not be able to distinguish or access each other, but the Lord knows one co-ordinate point (entity) from another even though both are "liberated." So that next time He has already decided whom (which point/devotee) to draft for what task, who is to be given what role etc.

    Considering the heirarchy of jivas in tattvavAda, what does liberation of a jiva mean ?


    Hare KRshNa
    Last edited by smaranam; 22 October 2011 at 04:11 PM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  2. #12
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    Virginia, USA
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    Re: Brahman, Prakriti and Jivas per Dvaita

    Dear Smaranam Ji,

    Shri Madacharya's definition of Mukthi is very simple and straight forward... Mukti Yogya Jiva being in its own SvaRupa state, status is Mukti.

  3. #13

    Re: Brahman, Prakriti and Jivas per Dvaita

    Thank You Gramesji,

    That was my understanding as well, and is the general VaishNav defN anyway. This other purpose of the post was the sentence by Kumar Das that i have quoted, leaves loose ends (perhaps intentionally).

    Hare KRshNa
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  4. #14

    Re: Brahman, Prakriti and Jivas per Dvaita

    I apologize for not being able to present my understanding in English properly. Its not very lucid or grammatically correct. There are thoughts in my head which doesnt 100% come out exactly when Im typing.

    Some things I want to make clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar_Das View Post
    - the actions of God;
    when God creates something, the difference between it and God, is an eternal one, if we agree there exists distinction between objects and that God is distinct/unique (He resembles nothing and nothing resembles Him), the question arises, is this only upon the existence of the created thing or is this eternal? Since God is eternal, therefore everything about Him must be eternal, and that includes His distinctness and the distinctness can only be said if there are other "things" from which He is different from
    God requires no other nor depends on no other for His own Nature. Nothing whatsoever is responsible for the Nature of God.

    the material, nature, attributes and essence of the created is different from the qualities of the Lord, and it was never prior to them being created that they entered into the realm of creation with all their attributes, such that previously it is not that they emerge from sameness(or that there was no sameness out of which they came and then they became different) and then to difference
    I had to intervene here also because it appears some people might "visualize" theology like this. Which is extremely dangerous and heretical.

    Imagination is futile and blasphemous. Its very Anti-Vedic I might add. But I let that slip because we are all not from the same culture.

    My point was to say that before becoming created, the created was not "one with God and of His nature" and then became what it was. There exists at no point any similarity between God and anything. Prior to its actual creation or otherwise.

    All created things share one absolute similarity, that is their Creator. And also their differences is due to the Creativity of their Creator.

    time is not a barrier to God, God is not subject to time, the existence of God does not fall under time, the Creatorhood of God is Eternal and the createdness of us is therefore Eternal,
    Just because God is in a certain way does not mean we must be in a way of relation to that similarly.

    What I meant is that we are created. And that imposition of us can never leave us. That "never" is an Eternal reality. And of course is because of God.

    My intention is to understand the nature of God. And I can only understand from my own perspective with what God has endowed me with. Its all God's. Nothing is mine.

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