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Thread: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

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    Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Namaste all,

    What is the authority of acharyas like Shankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, Madvacharya etc who founded their own sampradayas.

    These acharyas are human beings(jiva tatva) not bhagavan or not even avatar of bhagavan. All avatara's of bhagavan has been mentioned vedic literature and their purpose too.

    If one is trusting Vedas(apaurushaya not man made) then why one should follow their sampradaya which are man made ? No sampradaya has been mentioned in Vedas but only varna ashrama dharma.

    Padma purana says following for shankaracharya (avatar of shiva)
    The Supreme Lord Vishnu tells Lord Siva the following as recorded by Vyasadeva in Padma-Purana 42.110:
    svagamayAih kalpitais tvam ca janAm mad vimukhAn kkuru
    maM ca gopAya yena syAt sRSti hrAsa uttara-uttara
    You should appear in Kali yuga among human beings in your partial incarnation and citing false scriptures preach a philosophy to turn men against Me. Make sure to keep My eternal identity and Supreme form as a deep secret. In this way the atheistic population will gradually increase.

    Padma Purana 25.7:
    mayavadam asacchastram pracchannam bauddhamuchyate
    maya iva vihitam devi kalau brahmana murttina
    Maya-vada is an asat zastra – mAyavAdam asacchAstram , and is known – ucyate as disguised Buddhism - pracchanannaM
    bauddham . O devi in kali yuga voi lua forma unui brAhmaNa - devi kalau brAhmaNa-mUrtinA to teach that by Myself - mayaiva vihitaM

    Does anybody know about Ramanujacharya, Madvacharya or any acharya who form their own sampradayas/philosophy also saying that they follow vedas.

    --Mukunda

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    Re: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mukunda View Post
    Namaste all,
    Namaste.

    Padma purana says following for shankaracharya (avatar of shiva)
    The Supreme Lord Vishnu tells Lord Siva the following as recorded by Vyasadeva in Padma-Purana 42.110:
    svagamayAih kalpitais tvam ca janAm mad vimukhAn kkuru
    maM ca gopAya yena syAt sRSti hrAsa uttara-uttara
    You should appear in Kali yuga among human beings in your partial incarnation and citing false scriptures preach a philosophy to turn men against Me. Make sure to keep My eternal identity and Supreme form as a deep secret. In this way the atheistic population will gradually increase.
    I believe that this verse is a prophecy of Advaita.

    Does anybody know about Ramanujacharya, Madvacharya or any acharya who form their own sampradayas/philosophy also saying that they follow vedas.

    --Mukunda
    No, I don't. I have found through my own studies of scripture that their philosphies seem to contradict the scriptures. For example, the Taittiriya Upanishad clearly states that Lord Shiva can also grant moksha, but I have heard of none of the sampradayas preaching this. The Bhagavata Purana clearly states that Vishnu is Brahma and Shiva (Bhagavata Purana 10.14.19), but I have heard of none of the sampradays preaching this.

    Therefore I'm lost as to which sampradaya to "choose". What are your views on the correct sampradaya, if there is one at all? What are your views on philosophy (such as the nature of Brahman, moksha, etc.)?

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    Re: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~~~


    Quote Originally Posted by Mukunda View Post
    Namaste all,
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukunda View Post

    What is the authority of acharyas like Shankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, Madvacharya etc who founded their own sampradayas.
    These acharyas are human beings(jiva tatva) not bhagavan or not even avatar of bhagavan. All avatara's of bhagavan has been mentioned vedic literature and their purpose too.
    If one is trusting Vedas(apaurushaya not man made) then why one should follow their sampradaya which are man made ? No sampradaya has been mentioned in Vedas but only varna ashrama dharma.
    Namaste Mukanda,
    I see your point... Let me ask, when you say the vedas, are you including samhita, brahmamas, aranyakas and upanishads? I mention this because the family of rishi's is far and wide.

    The Rig Veda accounts for ~ 400 seers or kavi. From this, many of the parampara such as Adi Shankara brought clarity to this knowledge and are part of the vedic lineage.

    Their offer is the clarity of Truth/Brahman. As with his guru Gaudapada, the linage of truth for them can be traced back to Narayana. IMHO their 'authority' as you have inquired is based upon their realization of Being, of Brahman, exponents of Reality.

    The reason why I mention this is, following a realized beings teachings is to bring one to Brahman and to the fulfillment of ones goal as a human (this is what I have been taught)…the blooming of the veda.

    There are four Vaishnava sampradayas according to Padma Purnana I believe? Others more qualified can address this.

    And the sampradaya of Adi Shankara, is the Smarta tradition, some say this is an extension of the Srauta sampradaya [ based on the body of sruti ]. Its my teaching they are exponents of the veda, of Brahman, a tradition greatly respected and aligned to the vedas.

    I for one could not step one inch into the vedic knowledge without standing on the shoulders of the realized muni's that came before us, of this there is no doubt.

    Here is the lineage as I have been taught:

    (Aum) NARAYANAM PADMA-BHAVAM
    VASHISHTHAMSHAKTIM CHA TAT PUTRA PARASHARAM CHA
    VYASAM SHUKAM GAUDA-PADAM MAHANTAM
    GOVINDA YOGINDRAM ATHASYA SHISHYAM
    SHRI SHANKARA CHARYAM ATHASYA PADMA
    PADAM CHA HASTAMALAKAM CHA SHISHYAM
    TAM TROTAKAM VARTIKA KARAM ANYAN
    ASMAD GURUN SANTATA MANATOSMI




    Offered in the spirit of helping, let me know your thoughts.

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 28 August 2007 at 04:58 PM.
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mukunda View Post
    Namaste all,

    What is the authority of acharyas like Shankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, Madvacharya etc who founded their own sampradayas.
    Namaste,

    I don't know much about Dvaita or SriVaishnavism, but it is believed that Shakaracharya did not found any new sampradaya. He did express vedanta in fresh light of advaita ~ which also is however is not his creation.

    The sampradaya of Shankaracharya starts from Bhagvan Vishnu himself in Sat Yuga and flows through an unbroken lineage to this day of darkness. Bhgavan Vyas himself is an illustrious seer of this lineage. Shiva as Dakshinamurthi is the great guru of this sampradaya and hence its origins are surely apaurushaya.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

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    Re: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mukunda View Post
    Namaste all,

    What is the authority of acharyas like Shankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, Madvacharya etc who founded their own sampradayas.
    Didn't you note that many views were present from times immemorial? None of these found anything new - but only carried forward an old legacy. Brahma sutras mention many of these views such as that of Audulomi, Kasakrtsna, Badari, Jaimini etc who have different opinions regarding various view points. There were commentaries on the Gita and the sutras long before Sri Shankara by various teachers. For example, without bringing in divine beings, Shankara's tradition is atleast as old as Gaudapada historically, and probably much older. Ramanuja claims to be following an old commentary on the sutras by sage Bodhayana.
    He is the one on whom our hope depends. For if Hanuman survives, all we though dead are yet alive. But if his precious life be lost though living still we are but dead: He is our hope and sure relief -Jambavan (Yuddha Kanda. 74). Impossibility=Hanuman

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    Post Re: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Namaste Mukunda,

    If one is strictly following the ancient Vedas, it is perhaps not useful to pay much attention to any text that mentions Buddhism! And all of the Puranas are notoriously sectarian texts, each telling the whole story from the biased perspective of its own prime deity.

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    Re: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mukunda View Post
    Namaste all,

    ---
    Padma Purana 25.7:
    mayavadam asacchastram pracchannam bauddhamuchyate
    maya iva vihitam devi kalau brahmana murttina
    Maya-vada is an asat zastra – mAyavAdam asacchAstram , and is known – ucyate as disguised Buddhism - pracchanannaM
    bauddham . O devi in kali yuga voi lua forma unui brAhmaNa - devi kalau brAhmaNa-mUrtinA to teach that by Myself - mayaiva vihitaM

    Does anybody know about Ramanujacharya, Madvacharya or any acharya who form their own sampradayas/philosophy also saying that they follow vedas.

    --Mukunda
    Namaste Mukunda,

    What is 'zastra'? Is it some potent ashtra -- some dangerous weapon? Vedas speak of Rudra's blazing ashtra -- the blazing arrow, which illumines and also deludes and destroys. Is it also known as 'zastra'? I think 'Zarathustra' may also be derived from this very 'zastra' you mention of.

    Just my wild guess but you never know His mischief.

    And the fun you know? How much is "mayavadam asacchastram pracchannam bauddhamuchyate" vedic that we begin questioning validity of Gurus from Vedic point of view, using the above and more such verses? And I am now sure that 'zastra' is a very potent 'ashtra', fiery.

    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 29 August 2007 at 03:54 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Madhavan View Post
    Didn't you note that many views were present from times immemorial?
    Namaste,

    As they say, there is nothing new under the sun... an the great muni's only talk of satyam and re-introduce these truths again and again.

    pranams,
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Why do you use these passages against Advaita? Advaita is strictly based on Shruti and Smriti. It has support in the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahma Sutras and Bhagavad Gita. Therefore, these verses must probably have been a later interpolation.

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    Re: Authority of acharyas and following their sampradayas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mukunda View Post
    All avatara's of bhagavan has been mentioned vedic literature and their purpose too.
    There is NO concept of avatars in VEDIC literature . You seem to be speaking about Pauranika literature, which is very very different in age, contents and formal religious authority.

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