Purging myself of Abrahamism

[Kismet]

So, over the past several weeks I have been steadily purging myself of many of my older Abrahamic tendencies, ways of thought, tendencies, etc. It really is amazing how deeply in-grained they have become in me. The very idea that I am a sinner and unworthy is something that still, even though my relationship to Christianity was in the long hall tangential, has influenced my thinking in a pretty unusual, medieval-esque sort of way as though I were a serf and God was my king.

Touching, ain't it? Well, it's all guilt, and I'm through with it. This is because it is all lies. I am not unworthy; I am worthy; I am not guilty; I am pure. I am not going to go to some "hell." Hell doesn't exist; neither does heaven. What does exist is the SPIRITUAL WORLD and we can make a heaven or hell of it if we so choose by our actions and idiocy, but the bottom line is KNOWLEDGE not faith, TRUTH not ignorance.

If men and women find faith pleasing, and if it suits them in sentimental ways, and even strong, existential ways, that's FINE! But I have nothing to do with it. Absolutely nothing to do with faith in the Abrahamic sense at all. It is high time that I started realizing this fact fully and embracing that, in truth, only the Absolute exists, and not "God" in our mundane, pathetic conception of Him, (most certainly not the jerk-fool "god" of the OT). This is the highest truth of existence, and I as well as others have to rekindle it within our minds.

[Jainarayan]

So, over the past several weeks I have been steadily purging myself of many of my older Abrahamic tendencies, ways of thought, tendencies, etc. It really is amazing how deeply in-grained they have become in me. The very idea that I am a sinner and unworthy is something that still, even though my relationship to Christianity was in the long hall tangential, has influenced my thinking in a pretty unusual, medieval-esque sort of way as though I were a serf and God was my king.

Those feelings are drummed into us from the time we start Sunday School. If I had a dime for every Saturday afternoon I spent in the confessional confessing to the priest that I did what we know 13 year old boys do, and that I knew I would go straight to Hell if I got run over before getting into the confessional, I'd be living in the lap of luxury, not having to work a day in my life.

Now, when I compare and contrast how I felt before (or didn't feel) in a relationship with God to now, there are billions of light years in distance. Now I'm surrounded by God in all His forms, wrapped up as if I'm in a warm toasty blanket.

Touching, ain't it? Well, it's all guilt, and I'm through with it. This is because it is all lies. I am not unworthy; I am worthy; I am not guilty; I am pure. I am not going to go to some "hell." Hell doesn't exist; neither does heaven.

Shedding the guilt really won't take long. I have guilt in my life, but not for anything from Christianity. I'll have to deal with that guilt as best I can. My biggest concern and hope is that I come back as an artichoke, and my sister-in-law makes a dip out of me and gets food poisoning (boy, did I just pee away lots of good karma ).

[Eastern Mind]

So, over the past several weeks I have been steadily purging myself of many of my older Abrahamic tendencies, ways of thought, tendencies, etc. It really is amazing how deeply in-grained they have become in me.

Vannakkam Kismet: This shows excellent insight. It will take a long long time. I know several converts who have been practising Hinduism regularly for 30 or more years. Still I see hints of their former religion in them. I'm quite sure they don't realise it, but still I see it. (In fact, I know a few who had it so in-grained that after 20 years of Hinduism, they actually went back.) My former 'religion' was no religion, so I'm sure they may see that in me sometimes. This is no overnight switch. You are really correct about the deeply in-grained. The subconscious is like a lump of clay, ready to be remolded into a totally different shape. But its like it is elastic, and keeps bouncing back. You have to be on guard 24-7. Things like dualistic or thinking in opposites are from that system. Its all so subtle.

I don't buy this, "Now I'm a Hindu" stuff. A better perspective is : "I'm still working on this transformation I've decided to embark on." That way when one day you're relaxing on a drive down a country road and see an old Christian Church and some old comforting hymn comes to you, you won't be so disappointed with yourself.

Best wishes on the last (and best) journey for the jiva you are.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jainarayan]

I don't buy this, "Now I'm a Hindu" stuff. A better perspective is : "I'm still working on this transformation I've decided to embark on." That way when one day you're relaxing on a drive down a country road and see an old Christian Church and some old comforting hymn comes to you, you won't be so disappointed with yourself.

For the most part I agree. For some people it's a passing phase... like teenage girls suddenly deciding they're lesbian or bisexual because it's cool. People do the same with religions and belief systems. Buddhism and Wicca were all the rage in the 80s and 90s.

Keep in mind there are people (yeah, like me), who gave up their old religion fully, a long time before and turned against it. It's like shifting out of gear and going through life in neutral, to the point of even coming to disbelieve in a God, yet wanting to.

Then something creates a spark that causes an explosion. Flames don't always start with kindling and little wisps of smoke. Sometimes that gas leak was always there (I know, my metaphors leave a lot to be desired ), but it just needed that spark.

[Kismet]

For the most part I agree. For some people it's a passing phase... like teenage girls suddenly deciding they're lesbian or bisexual because it's cool. People do the same with religions and belief systems. Buddhism and Wicca were all the rage in the 80s and 90s.

For the longest time I played at being a liberal Christian...not realizing just how insidious and wrong-headed that enterprise really was. Christianity is Christianity, and really you can either go straight in and be committed or, your mind gets gradually subverted. Eventually I got to the point where I couldn't kid myself any longer; it starts getting dangerous.

Some of the most disingenuous aspects of any religion, even when it achieves a relatively high caliber of sophistication, is how ultimately either/or and dark it can become in its musings. For instance in Christianity there are two sins you can commit (along with others), namely presumption, where you know for a fact that you're going to heaven, and despair, where you know for a fact that you're damned. From a distance, really, when you are just playing with these ideas, not taking them too seriously, they seem almost quaint. Sooner or later you become drawn into them in an insanely genteel manner, however, and that is where you run the risk of becoming truly lost.

Better to bail when you can instead of getting attached to these, really mad, ideas.

[Jainarayan]

For the longest time I played at being a liberal Christian...not realizing just how insidious and wrong-headed that enterprise really was. Christianity is Christianity, and really you can either go straight in and be committed or, your mind gets gradually subverted. Eventually I got to the point where I couldn't kid myself any longer; it starts getting dangerous.

Yes, it's "cafeteria Christianity" and it doesn't work in the long run. If for example, you accept only the "better" things Jesus said, then you are just listening to someone who said some wise things, like "Love your neighbor as yourself"; "Love God with all your heart, soul and strength"; "Do unto others..."; etc. But it doesn't end there. At any rate, that's not Christianity, that's taking from those little booklets that have wise sayings in them. So, you are Christian or you are not. At the finish line, I came in dead last as Christian according to me and to other Christians.

Some of the most disingenuous aspects of any religion, even when it achieves a relatively high caliber of sophistication, is how ultimately either/or and dark it can become in its musings. For instance in Christianity there are two sins you can commit (along with others), namely presumption, where you know for a fact that you're going to heaven, and despair, where you know for a fact that you're damned.

Ah yes... "presumption on God's mercy" it's called. Go out, fornicate, steal, kill, go to confession, rinse, repeat, go to Heaven. Or so the thinking goes. How many times I went to Mass on Sunday morning and saw kids from my high school go take communion when I knew the night before that they... well, you get the idea...

And despair... that's why suicide is a sin in Christianity. You've despaired of God's power to solve your problems; you've slapped God in the face. "Off to Hell with ye, I say!" Aw, bullcrap (can I say "bullcrap" here?).

From a distance, really, when you are just playing with these ideas, not taking them too seriously, they seem almost quaint. Sooner or later you become drawn into them in an insanely genteel manner, however, and that is where you run the risk of becoming truly lost.

Better to bail when you can instead of getting attached to these, really mad, ideas.

You have no idea how mad these ideas can become. And maddening. Look for a pm in the very near future.

[charitra]

If only we can convince EVERYBODY that there is no permanent hell or heaven for after life, then Iam sure the planet will witness no religion based animosity ever in future. Both abrahamic faiths will live in harmony and so will the rest of the humanity Namaste.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: The subconscious mind is really entrenched, whether we realise it or not. I was reflecting on this. Early childhood samskaras (experiences, and impressions from those experiences) are the hardest to get rid of.

Part of my childhood was the great outdoors. We fished at a local river. To this day, even thought it is an adharmic thought, if I am travelling on pilgrimage to a sacred place in America or elsewhere, if we stop at some small river, I immediately go to, "I wonder what kind of fish are in that river." it seems toatally harmless, yet for me the though violates Yama 1, ahimsa, as ahimsa refers to THOUGHT, WORD, and ACTION.

Another old saying that is apt here is this: "You can take the boy from the country, but you can't take the country from the boy."

Turning that principle to some who are on here it goes, "You can take the person out of India, but you can't take the India out of the person."

or ... "You can take the boy out of Christianity, but you can't take the Christian out of the boy."

I personally think there is a ton of truth in it, varying somewhat from individual to individual, of course, along with the strength of those samskaras we all had so long ago.

Aum Namasivaya

[Kismet]

Currently I am finding the most help by chanting. I feel that if only I continuously do japa I gradually transform and renew my mind such that I overcome my more negative, entrenched, tendencies. The Hare Krsna mantra has been especially beneficial in this regard.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I find it somewhat necessary now to "hate my mind" such that I can knock out those former thoughts and thought-tendencies touching on false religion. I think that if only I can get to a real breaking point I can erase a lot of garbage by burning it up in a sort of release.

Thanks to all for the input.

[sm78]

Having deeply practiced christianity, changing to Hinduism will be a challange, but we must encourage & support.

I think those westerners who have always been sort of 'drifters' and disconnected from the religion of their society would find it most easy to adapt to hinduism. There are many people who fall in this category, but fortunately or unfortunately they are least interested in any religion, including Hinduism. However, I think in this forum we have a few westerners who were never mentally or emotionally into Christianity, even though it sarrounded them -- and it seems it has been quite easy for them. my observations ofcourse.

But most of the converts to Hinduism or Buddhism are past Chirstians and probably still carrying the hangover. It is a difficult situation for both parties - and perhaves as EM has suggested will take a long and painful period, may be more than one lifetime to be free from past influences.