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Thread: Purging myself of Abrahamism

  1. #11
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    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    Quote Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
    Currently I am finding the most help by chanting. I feel that if only I continuously do japa I gradually transform and renew my mind such that I overcome my more negative, entrenched, tendencies. The Hare Krsna mantra has been especially beneficial in this regard.

    I don't know if this makes sense, but I find it somewhat necessary now to "hate my mind" such that I can knock out those former thoughts and thought-tendencies touching on false religion. I think that if only I can get to a real breaking point I can erase a lot of garbage by burning it up in a sort of release.

    Thanks to all for the input.
    Vannakkam Kismet: Repression and suppression are two different things. 'Hate' works like an affirmation worded negatively. I think if you think in terms of 'hate' (still an Abrahamic concept in itself) it will actually do the opposite.

    In my experience, these things dissipate with a new layer of paint, or a cleaning of previous paint. Just put so many positive Hindu experiences over them that eventually its been replaced. I also never underestimate the power of temple. I often think of Lord Siva as 'the great inner eraser' . What is He erasing? If your life was written out in a book, he is erasing all those pages that were non-conducive to spiritual growth. Even if you're not aware of the process, the loving relationship with Guru and Gods does just that. You enter the temple feeling all upset about something, and after a few minutes of being in that environment, you have forgotten totally what it was you were upset about. Such is the secret power of bhakti.

    Aum Namasivaya

  2. #12
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    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    I find this thread interesting... if you wish to get rid of this blemish you think you have , it is just best to rid yourself of all mala-s¹. The one you speak of is one of many on a list.

    Just as one cultivates the earth and removes the rocks so there is room for growth to occur, we too remove the impediments for the Supreme to dominate in our lives.

    I look forward to future posts were the conversation is around purging other limitations you find in your self.

    praṇām

    1. mala - impurity
    Last edited by yajvan; 19 August 2011 at 11:11 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13

    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    Hmm....I know in this thread everyone talked about converts purging themselves of Abrahamism, but what about native born Hindus that have some Abrahamism? I think this might because of the Hindu sect my family belongs to, but some of the ways we perceive God and karma seem to be influenced by Abrahamic religions.

    Granted our religious sect says that we follow the Vishistadvaita philosophy, but I am clueless about what that even means, and my mom just focuses on bhakti and sort of absorbs everything she hears. My dad is more knowledgeable, but I don't really understand some of the stuff he says, and I don't know understand how that matters in my day to day life. So what would you guys suggest for born Hindus like us?

  4. #14
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    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    Namaste Kismet,

    I understand where you're coming from. Taking the step from Hindu-Christian to full Hindu is not easy when you've been practising your old religion for all of this lifetime. Like EM was saying, a lot of it has to do with samskaras from our early years, when ideas and habits were being formed fully in the mind. If one is submersed in a Christian environment, it can be very difficult to break free of its perverse ideas of spirituality. Concepts like original sin, evil and Satan become deeply entrenched in your mind, and even spreads out into the wider psyche of the culture you're living in.

    I had a period when this was becoming apparent to me. Not even in a religious sense. I tried picking up a book, watching a film or other and couldn't seem to understand why there was still this pervasive Christian duality underlying it all. I've noticed even some atheists I know aren't free from this unconscious burden of Abrahamic teachings. They are that deeply rooted.

    I want to echo EM words on this. Don't blame yourself, or try and "hate" the thoughts out of you. You're setting yourself up a negative thought pattern here; if you fail in this endeavour, there's a chance you could end up blaming yourself even more.

    Take EM's advice and replace the negative with something positive. You say chanting mantras has helped. That's great to hear. Keep at it the Hare Krishna mantra consistently and try to make a discipline out of it. This way you're subconsciously teaching yourself to take your new spirituality more seriously. Visiting temples is a great idea, as well as reading more scriptures, educating yourself on what the sages have talked and expounded on.

    Think like a Hindu. Talk like a Hindu. Act like a Hindu. It's going to be a gradual process, but I believe this slow and steady nature of finding your home again is something that is ultimately for the best. Unravelling past tendencies and ideas that have shaped your entire life up until now will not be achieved in a matter of moments.

    Om namah Shivaya
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

  5. #15
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    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    Quote Originally Posted by bp789 View Post
    Hmm....I know in this thread everyone talked about converts purging themselves of Abrahamism, but what about native born Hindus that have some Abrahamism? I think this might because of the Hindu sect my family belongs to, but some of the ways we perceive God and karma seem to be influenced by Abrahamic religions.

    Granted our religious sect says that we follow the Vishistadvaita philosophy, but I am clueless about what that even means, and my mom just focuses on bhakti and sort of absorbs everything she hears. My dad is more knowledgeable, but I don't really understand some of the stuff he says, and I don't know understand how that matters in my day to day life. So what would you guys suggest for born Hindus like us?
    Vannakkam bp: I find this incredibly astute and wise. You have recognised in yourself what I have observed so many unable to recognise. The Christian or Abrahamic programming just sort of sinks in without Hindus catching on. The first step, in my opinion, is what you've just done ... recognised it and admitted it.

    Let's take the analogy of an alcoholic. Its a slow process to become a full fledged alcoholic. Many who are simply refuse to admit it, especially at the beginning stages. Sometimes it takes a doctor telling them their liver is pretty much a goner before it comes to them in a real way.

    So you've done your soul a great service. Now you can make a vow or pledge to be aware enough to not allow any more to get in. As far as any purging goes, because it wasn't there in any way near the same strength converts talk about, I don't see it as a problem. You can use your childhood experiences (I assume you got samskaras like namakarana, first feeding, and all that) in a positive way. For you, regressing is most likely regressing back to Hinduism. How fortunate!

    In my view, the mind has a limited capacity for remembering experiences. If we put so many Hindu experiences in there, there's no room for other stuff!

    Aum Namasivaya

  6. #16

    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    As a born & raised American, it is beyond hard to escape Abrahimistic everything, but quite in particular with Christianity as a whole being the predominant religion most Americans "identify" themselves as. I think something like 22% of the US population is Roman Catholic, but I believe more Americans are Protestant Christians, or call themselves as such. Judaism however is still a presence. Christianity though permeates everything. Even people who don't claim Christianity celebrate Christmas as a holiday. I personally was baptized Roman Catholic, but not raised it. (too long a story as to why); I actually chose to practice it as a teen during my own spiritual quest-so started at the place I was "born into", but by very early adulthood, I was done with it. So we did not attend church as a family, but still-Christmas and Easter were celebrated in the generic sense. We all ended up then attending main line Protestant churches later as adults (again-too long a story on that one as well), but suffice it to say, my parents were hardly "true" believers of Christianity. Doesn't matter, because it permeates the US culture. I have only attended church services in the last 8 years for one reason: funerals. I "technically" am still on the roll books of the Protestant church I last attended for about 1 1/2 years before I found it even more devoid of the previous one I attended. (two different denominations, though not terribly different really). But everyone around me is either some sort of Protestant Christian, Roman Catholic, or Jewish. I can't escape that environment-although I have never agreed with a punitive, vengeful God. And while America may be Abrahamic, just in my area alone, there are several Hindu temples, a Buddhist temple, and an ISKCON one. (these are just the ones I'm personally aware of-there are probably more). So thank goodness there are other options for an American who is besieged with everything else. But I still struggle with the occasional thought that when something bad happens, could it be God punishing me for not being a Christian, or for not being the nicest person in the world at whatever particular time, etc. Then with that thinking, I merge it with kharma and say, well I must deserve this bad circumstance because I was not nice, not right in this behavior, on insert whatever else negative aspect of myself. I still view it as PUNITIVE. So even I who wasn't raised up attending church, STILL have some of this nonsense worry! I am finding chants and mantras very comforting though and starting to feel more purely loved by the Divine.

  7. #17

    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    Namaste all,

    Quote Originally Posted by bp789 View Post
    Hmm....I know in this thread everyone talked about converts purging themselves of Abrahamism, but what about native born Hindus that have some Abrahamism? I think this might because of the Hindu sect my family belongs to, but some of the ways we perceive God and karma seem to be influenced by Abrahamic religions.

    Granted our religious sect says that we follow the Vishistadvaita philosophy, but I am clueless about what that even means, and my mom just focuses on bhakti and sort of absorbs everything she hears. My dad is more knowledgeable, but I don't really understand some of the stuff he says, and I don't know understand how that matters in my day to day life. So what would you guys suggest for born Hindus like us?
    Great point, BP. As a "born Hindu" raised in a semi-practicing family in America, I experienced some of the same things. When I first started becoming more religious a few years ago, I took a very universalist view, including the "Jesus was a good teacher" belief. Fortunately, I only really believed this for a few months, before I started learning more and more about the brilliance and beauty of Sanatana Dharma in addition to the diminutive, puny, and hateful views and beliefs of Abrahamism, as well as all of the destruction and harm it has done to humanity, and also that Jesus never actually existed and is just a myth...lol

    Quote Originally Posted by shantiseeker View Post
    As a born & raised American, it is beyond hard to escape Abrahimistic everything, but quite in particular with Christianity as a whole being the predominant religion most Americans "identify" themselves as. I think something like 22% of the US population is Roman Catholic, but I believe more Americans are Protestant Christians, or call themselves as such. Judaism however is still a presence. Christianity though permeates everything. Even people who don't claim Christianity celebrate Christmas as a holiday. I personally was baptized Roman Catholic, but not raised it. (too long a story as to why); I actually chose to practice it as a teen during my own spiritual quest-so started at the place I was "born into", but by very early adulthood, I was done with it. So we did not attend church as a family, but still-Christmas and Easter were celebrated in the generic sense. We all ended up then attending main line Protestant churches later as adults (again-too long a story on that one as well), but suffice it to say, my parents were hardly "true" believers of Christianity. Doesn't matter, because it permeates the US culture. I have only attended church services in the last 8 years for one reason: funerals. I "technically" am still on the roll books of the Protestant church I last attended for about 1 1/2 years before I found it even more devoid of the previous one I attended. (two different denominations, though not terribly different really). But everyone around me is either some sort of Protestant Christian, Roman Catholic, or Jewish. I can't escape that environment-although I have never agreed with a punitive, vengeful God. And while America may be Abrahamic, just in my area alone, there are several Hindu temples, a Buddhist temple, and an ISKCON one. (these are just the ones I'm personally aware of-there are probably more). So thank goodness there are other options for an American who is besieged with everything else. But I still struggle with the occasional thought that when something bad happens, could it be God punishing me for not being a Christian, or for not being the nicest person in the world at whatever particular time, etc. Then with that thinking, I merge it with kharma and say, well I must deserve this bad circumstance because I was not nice, not right in this behavior, on insert whatever else negative aspect of myself. I still view it as PUNITIVE. So even I who wasn't raised up attending church, STILL have some of this nonsense worry! I am finding chants and mantras very comforting though and starting to feel more purely loved by the Divine.
    I completely agree, Shantiseeker. I know several people who have said that they don't actually believe in Jesus or Christianity, but they still call themselves Christian, just to sort of fit in, or because their families are Christian, or other nonsensical reasons like that.

    One of my closest friends was a Catholic but even as he realized that it wasn't true and he doesn't really believe it, he struggled for a long time to "officially" leave Catholicism because he still had the fear that he would go to hell. It's quite sad, really, this kind of hold that Abrahamism can have on people. People who don't even believe in it still hold on to it, just to fit in or because they're scared of burning in hell for all eternity. It can be frustrating, especially when people hold on to Christianity for the former reasons, to fit in or whatever, but it can also be sad and even understandable to some degree, when they still hold on to it for this fear of hell that has been so deeply ingrained in them. Fortunately my friend was finally able to purge himself of this fear, and hopefully many other Abrahamics will as well.

    Jai Sri Ram
    Sanatana Dharma ki Jai!
    Jai Hanuman

  8. #18
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    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    Vannakkam: I realised another thing in this 'purging' or remolding process is removal of reminders. For sentimental reasons we may hold on to objects such as old bibles, pictures, candles, and such. They are reminders of who we were. I think its helpful to get rid of them. Any church will accept a bible, and you can donate stuff to second hand stores. For cheap stuff, you can just toss it. The house should be filled to the brim with Hindu imagery, not just in the shrine room. (I've seen shrine rooms hidden away from public view in tiny corners of shelves. They should be apart from the rest of the house for purification reasons, but not hidden out of embarrassment.)

    The fact that you're in a Hindu home should be obvious to all who enter.

    Aum Namasivaya

  9. #19

    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam bp: I find this incredibly astute and wise. You have recognised in yourself what I have observed so many unable to recognise. The Christian or Abrahamic programming just sort of sinks in without Hindus catching on. The first step, in my opinion, is what you've just done ... recognised it and admitted it.

    Let's take the analogy of an alcoholic. Its a slow process to become a full fledged alcoholic. Many who are simply refuse to admit it, especially at the beginning stages. Sometimes it takes a doctor telling them their liver is pretty much a goner before it comes to them in a real way.

    So you've done your soul a great service. Now you can make a vow or pledge to be aware enough to not allow any more to get in. As far as any purging goes, because it wasn't there in any way near the same strength converts talk about, I don't see it as a problem. You can use your childhood experiences (I assume you got samskaras like namakarana, first feeding, and all that) in a positive way. For you, regressing is most likely regressing back to Hinduism. How fortunate!

    In my view, the mind has a limited capacity for remembering experiences. If we put so many Hindu experiences in there, there's no room for other stuff!

    Aum Namasivaya
    Well, not exactly. I was actually born in the United States, and my father was getting his master's degree at the time as my family had recently immigrated, so we never really did the whole traditional thing. I never had a real namakarana, first feeding, or hair shaving ceremony (not sure what it's called). My parents were too busy trying to feed us and earn a decent income and study that they never really taught us much about Hinduism. I mean we prayed and such, but nothing specific. It wasn't until around six years ago that my parents started becoming more religious. I have a bunch of Indian memories from my childhood, but not a lot of Hindu memories though.

  10. #20

    Re: Purging myself of Abrahamism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramakrishna View Post
    Namaste all,






    I completely agree, Shantiseeker. I know several people who have said that they don't actually believe in Jesus or Christianity, but they still call themselves Christian, just to sort of fit in, or because their families are Christian, or other nonsensical reasons like that.

    One of my closest friends was a Catholic but even as he realized that it wasn't true and he doesn't really believe it, he struggled for a long time to "officially" leave Catholicism because he still had the fear that he would go to hell. It's quite sad, really, this kind of hold that Abrahamism can have on people. People who don't even believe in it still hold on to it, just to fit in or because they're scared of burning in hell for all eternity. It can be frustrating, especially when people hold on to Christianity for the former reasons, to fit in or whatever, but it can also be sad and even understandable to some degree, when they still hold on to it for this fear of hell that has been so deeply ingrained in them. Fortunately my friend was finally able to purge himself of this fear, and hopefully many other Abrahamics will as well.

    Jai Sri Ram
    Indeed! I know I wrote this very thing already on another thread, but I knew a Catholic who hadn't darkened the doors of a church for at least 10 years, and after that, it was probably more like 30 (this was a conversation that took place 20 years ago). but she said, "I can't imagine being anything else."
    And I just couldn't help but want to ask her just what BEING Catholic really WAS to her. She had nothing to do with observing her religion, but heaven forbid she "be" anything else. It's treated by some as it's their nationality or something, like being American of German, or Irish or whatever descent. It's not even a true religion for many people-no thought or interest in what it really means, just something they were born into. But it's not something that should work that way. Even many Protestant Christians are just what I call "Catholic lite". Identify as Methodist, Lutheran, etc, but don't bother to participate in church (which is a central aspect of Christianity). And then on Christmas and Easter, all the church parking lots are jammed to capacity with what is known here in America as all the "C & E Christians" going to church. At least I WENT to church and participated in committees, Bible study groups, taught Sunday school, sang in the choir. I gave it a try. I really did. At least I was making the effort-it shows that it wasn't really who I was, because I sit here today with it not really having meant anything spiritually. My intent was-it just wasn't the right place, but where's an American to go, right?? SD that is also a way of life and philosophy. I did have myself removed from that church's roll book-sent a letter and all. The other church I just left alone-I'm like, at this point they'll eventually remove me as it's been 8 years and the pastor never has called to try to get us back, even though all of about 30 people attend services weekly (a lot of other extraneous work he must be doing-doesn't even care about congregants who disappear; not even going along with the Christian way of wanting members to be attending church on a regular basis). Hinduism seems so different-those born into it seem to actually THINK! Be that as it may-many Christians I've known to seem to genuinely believe, so it's not every identified Christian, but it's still a lot more I know that just go through the motions than not. Now-let's get me purging of my fears!!

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