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Thread: Zakir Naik: Inventing a Jagadguru

  1. #21

    Re: Zakir Naik: Inventing a Jagadguru

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Sorry sm78, if my words seem at all heated; I am venting a little steam here. I fully respect and honour your posture.

    praNAms

    mana
    Not at all heated. Materialism and greed are major problems of 21st century for humanity, but I am not sure they are the biggest or only problem at the moment. Many religions or at least some convinient interpretation of them promote this capitalistic greed.

    Why should a non-religious person necessarily need to drift into materialism? Why should there be the need for a book or a prophet to teach one to care for the next door neighbour? All these are basic elements of humanity which some people feel from inside and others need to be reminded often - but does one need religion for that?
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  2. #22

    Re: Zakir Naik: Inventing a Jagadguru

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Agnostic just means you haven't experienced 'that' yet.
    So are we saying everyone else in this forum have experienced 'that' except poor me?

    I don't want to appear to conduct a online crusade against faith and belief. It may be necessary for many people - but at the same time one needs to be conscious of the limited possibilities religion, faith and belief offers and also obvious dangers it promotes when they get hard-coded with God's stamp.

    How much we would like to believe otherwise, but Hinduism was and is still not free from such blemishes.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  3. #23

    Re: Zakir Naik: Inventing a Jagadguru

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    Why should a non-religious person necessarily need to drift into materialism? Why should there be the need for a book or a prophet to teach one to care for the next door neighbour? All these are basic elements of humanity which some people feel from inside and others need to be reminded often - but does one need religion for that?
    A nonreligious person has an equal chance of being materialistic as a religious person. We are all water from the same tap.

    It seems this is an idea (nonreligious are less moral/more materialistic/more"insert word here") is used all over the world for various reasons...even amongst different religions.

    Once I was told that nonxtians were not moral because humans needed the 10 commandments to be moral...and this made me giggle so much.

    I told this confused Portion that just because xtians have rules...do they always follow? and isn't it much more amazing that a family without xtianity lives by those rules...and much much more? All without someone standing over us and making sure of it?

    Then many years later, when I was in the midst of pagans and told them I was a virgin till marriage. They told me that those things were xtian because only xtians had such rules about chastity. (I also had them claim the modern work ethic is xtian based and therfore not something they followed either)That ones outside of xtianity had freedom.

    But freedom of what? Choice?

    What about our own inner rules? The things which scream at us when we know we are at the cusp of a wrong decision?


    Those, who have no reason other than their own inner compass to guide and correct their path...and yet live wonderfully moral lives...full of honor and goodness...

    Those, I feel are just as Blessed...so close to Beloved.

  4. #24
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    Re: Zakir Naik: Inventing a Jagadguru

    namaste singhi,

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    So are we saying everyone else in this forum have experienced 'that' except poor me?
    No, obviously not! Sorry, I intend the word 'you' for you in particular just in general. Probably should've used the word 'one'.

    What I meant to say was that one could be agnostic and still stay hindu in the general sense of the word. In fact, you can drop all the rituals etc. and still be, I think. No?

    How much we would like to believe otherwise, but Hinduism was and is still not free from such blemishes.
    No one said that hinduism is perfect. I don't think any religion can be without blemishes not until 'humans' are practicing it. If robots start practicing religion we might see some perfection.
    satay

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    Re: Zakir Naik: Inventing a Jagadguru

    Pranam Satay and all

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    No one said that hinduism is perfect. I don't think any religion can be without blemishes not until 'humans' are practicing it. If robots start practicing religion we might see some perfection.
    Now i beg to differ here, if Dharma was not perfect there is no need to follow. Problem as i see it is when we apply dharma with our vasnas it would look like dharam is tainted. that is why i shy away when people want to convert the whole world first perfect your self, that is always the emphasis in Hindu Dharma. all endeavors are tainted with our gunas this what Gita says;

    saha-jam karma kaunteya
    sa-dosam api na tyajet

    sarvarambha hi dosena

    dhumenagnir ivavrtah


    Every endeavor is covered by some sort of fault, just as fire is covered by smoke. Therefore one should not give up the work which is born of his nature, O son of Kunti, even if such work is full of fault.(18.48)

    We can not doubt the purity off water just because it gets muddied.



    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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    Re: Zakir Naik: Inventing a Jagadguru

    namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    We can not doubt the purity off water just because it gets muddied.
    Jai Shree Krishna
    Agreed.
    satay

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    Re: Zakir Naik: Inventing a Jagadguru

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    Namaste,

    Yes I am a former muslim. I do not think my story is very interesting as most would probably just see a confused person. But I was raised in a christian family, though christianity was never really formally practiced. It was simply the adoption of Jesus as the Son of God who died for our sins. It was nothing more than that. When I was a teenager around 14 or so I started reading into christianity mainly from the bible and listening to christian lectures. I explored some of other teachings and learned a bit about Islam. I thought that they were demonized out of error. I started to read the Qur'an and started to view Islamic Monotheism in a better light. I thought maybe this was the 'pure monotheism' that mankind was raised upon. I thought worship of Jesus would not really bring to heaven and that God would want me to worship him directly without an intermediary even if it is claimed to be God's incarnate.

    I adopted Islam and followed it strongly for about 7 years. I really did all my five daily prayers, learned a bit of arabic to recite Quran and read prayers. I went to the masjid. I got into a bit of fundamentalism when i read deeper into the religion through the Qur'an and the hadith. I looked for authentic ahadeeth (narrations of the prophet) that were accepted by major scholars. What I pieced together is that many of the Jihadis are right in terms of Jihad being obligatory. Jihad is fard ayn (compulsory) if muslim lands have been occupied and under threat. It is fard kifaya (only compulsory upon a certain amount of muslims when there is a ruler over muslims that is not being harmed by invasion). I learned that the Prophet allowed mutilation in retaliation to mutilations. I learned also that the prophet allowed raiding of merchants (basically businessmen and women who were not warriors). Along with many other ahadeeth I was able to realize that Muhammad allowed and justified killing of the disbelievers after the verses of Jihad came down. At first the verses were defensive and then when the muslims got the upper hand it became part of the religion for offensive jihad. This means that if there is a ruler over the muslims and rules by shariah then that nation needs to either be making jihad to make the name of God uppermost or at least preparing.

    So I really found that many jihadees in many parts of the world were right in their jihadi fundamentalism.

    After much practice of Islam i found that there was still something that needed to be filled. There was still not satisfaction in the practice of trying to live up to God from Islamic precepts and Aqeedah (creed). I would wander off and read books by Thich Nhat Hanh by this point and feel guilty about it. I felt like I was doing something wrong by learning about mindfulness, Buddha, and meditation. I even began practicing mindfulness meditation and doing mindful activities from the works of Thich Nhat Hanh. What eventually happened is that I started to see the flaws and non-right views of Islam. It was not bringing me happiness. The only thing that caused me to be in it for so long is I thought there were scientific miracles that muslims claim is in the Qur'an. This is really not the case, but I could not help the stupidity I had back then. I eventually started to see that Jihad is awful. That religion from Christianity to Islam has been very primitive. I eventually told my wife who had also converted to Islam how i was feeling. I read my fiqh (jurisprudence) books and marriage books that instructed that it was okay to 'lightly' beat your wife. I shared these with my wife and my doubts and we somehow let go of Islam. Then I continue to learn about mindfulness, meditation, Buddhism, and Sanatana Dharma. Here I am now. Not knowing what to call myself or what beliefs I have. I just find that the Dharma is ringing true and it is something we can actually taste instead of waiting for Paradise on the other side.

    Not an exciting story, but I am very grateful that I have left Islam. I sometimes think negatively of those times, but my wife tells me everything happens for a reason.
    I am deeply moved by your story and would sincerely pray to god to help you progress

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