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Thread: veda- a hint, a symbol

  1. #11

    Re: veda- a hint, a symbol

    Namasté yajvan

    Thank you, for your guidance and ilumination, the dhyānabindu upaniṣad is quite remarkable!

    I have been reading this on-line translation with little Sanskrit shown, do you know of this translation? Can you recommend it or any other? I do like to make comparisons in order to understand from a deeper or different perspective. Although I may need more than 108 readings to absorb this one, no matter who good the interpretation!

    I'm am aware that there may be some dubious interpretation about.

    Thank you.

    praNAma

    mana
    Last edited by Mana; 26 September 2011 at 03:54 PM.

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    Re: veda- a hint, a symbol

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Namasté yajvan

    Thank you, for your guidance and ilumination, the dhyānabindu upaniṣad is quite remarkable!

    I have been reading this on-line translation with little Sanskrit shown, do you know of this translation? Can you recommend it or any other? I do like to make comparisons in order to understand from a deeper or different perspective. Although I may need more than 108 readings to absorb this one, no matter who good the interpretation!

    I'm am aware that there may be some dubious interpretation about.

    Thank you. praNAma

    mana
    A cursory look suggests it is a reasonable translation ( IMHO) for one to consider and read.

    The translation increases in value when the author ( of the translation) spends time with the various ways one can look at the verses and their insights.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: veda- a hint, a symbol

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    This next sloka is not from the ved proper, but if we look at ved as 'vid' meaning knowledge, this then applies to this offering of 'hints and symbols'. This is from the tantrāloka ( a work by ācārya¹ abhinavagupta-ji)

    na divā pūjayeddevaṃ
    rātrau naiva ca naiva ca |
    arcayeddevadeveśa
    dinarāriparikṣaye ||

    Now what does this say? I will yield to svāmī lakman-jū's translation, yet offer some of my words by a slash that I think may add just a pinch of value, (derived from the saṃskṛt word offered).

    It says, do not worship the the Lord or deva by day (divā¹) ; do not worship (pūja) the lord by night (rātrau).
    Worship / (arc = praise, honor, adore) Him
    at the point / ( dina = cut or divided) of the meeting (pari) of day and night.


    One must ask, why would ācārya abhinavagupta-ji tell us this ? What can be the meaning of this ? We will see in the next post.

    praṇām

    words
    • ācārya - knowing or teaching the ācāra or rules ; a spiritual guide, teacher
    • divā - by day ; do not confuse this with deva which means 'divine' found later in the śloka.

    Last edited by yajvan; 18 July 2016 at 11:04 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14
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    Re: veda- a hint, a symbol

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namaste


    It says, do not worship the the Lord or deva by day (divā) ; do not
    worship (pūja) the lord by night (rātrau). Worship / (arc = praise, honor, adore) Him at the point / ( dina = cut or divided) of the meeting (pari) of day and night.


    Now one must ask, why would ācārya abhinavagupta-ji tell us this ? What can be the meaning of this ?

    First recall all the above posts are about hints and symbols (saketa) and ācārya abhinavagupta-ji's words fit-in nicely. He is informing us of when it is the best time to practice one's internal sādhana; the best time to become one-pointed (ekāgra). He is informing us that the time is at the junction point (saṃdhi).

    This too has a double meaning. This saṃdhi that is offered in the śloka is mentioned as dina and pari . The definiton of these are in the śloka offered above. Hence the junction point that is 'cut or divided' part of day and night we call dawn and dusk ( some say twilight). Of this, there is no doubt this is saṃdhi. Yet even a deeper meaning remains.

    Day and night are easily recognized as sun and moon. With the day the sun is out, and at night the moon takes over in the sky. Yet the notion of sun and moon are also symbols for one's breath of in and out. So this instruction includes that place/space in-between the in-breath and the out-breath. Here is where one's breath becomes the 4th prāṇāyām as reviewed in this post : http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=78533&postcount=21
    Here is where one can find the 'Supreme' to worship - that is, via one's practice. Such is the brilliance of ācārya abhinavagupta-ji.


    praṇām

    words

    • saṃketa - a hint , sign or signal or gesture . It is rooted (√ )in kṛ meaning 'to give a signal '.
      • śailī - (2nd derivation) is a special or particular interpretation

    • ekāgra - absorbed in; one-pointed , fixing one's attention ; closely attentive , intent
    • 'in-between breaths' can be reviewed at this HDF string prāṇa - in our out ? http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...8533#post78533
    Last edited by yajvan; 18 July 2016 at 11:05 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #15
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    Re: veda- a hint, a symbol

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namaste

    This next sloka is not from the ved proper, but if we look at ved as 'vid' meaning knowledge, this then applies to this offering of 'hints and symbols'.

    Here is another example... this is from the śivasūtra-s, the cornerstone of kaśmir śaivism. This scripture was revealed to vasugupta-ji by śiva.
    It is said the Lord (śiva) revealed this knowledge to vasugupta-ji in a dream and that he should go to a certain place where the sūtra-s
    would be engraved. He did so and began his contemplation on what the Lord had offered.

    I am reading from the śiva sūtra vimarśinī by kṣemarāja-ji . He was the chief disciple of abhinavagupta-ji who lived in the 10th century. The sūtra I find delightful and entertains deeper meanings is found in the 1st section, 13th sūkta. It says the following:

    icchā śaktirūmā kumārī ||

    To the casual observer this says, The power of will is the playful umā. Yet another view, from one that is the kṣetrajā (realized being) says, his will is the energy of the Supreme (in this case we're talking of śiva as Supreme) and it is called umā or kumāri.

    When we talk of 'his will' we are referring to the yogī of which was called out in prior sūtra-s.This one is one of many qualities that is being discussed as the yogī comes to full realization.

    So let's look a bit deeper. When one first sees the notion of umā it is assumed we must be talking of śiva-s consort/wife umā (the daughter of himavat). Yet the wise, in this case svāmī lakman-jū, say this umā is equal to svātantrya. This word means complete independence without a trace of any dependency what so ever.

    The second name that is offered is kumārī. This kumārī is rooted in 'kam', and is a child, a boy. What do children to? They play. This is krīḍā - to sport, play, amuse. So by saying kumārī the inference is, that energy (śākti) that plays (krīḍā).
    If we take a look of what we have so far we have the will (icchā) of the yogī is that independent (uma/svātantrya) energy (śākti) of the Supreme that plays or sports ( kumārī ).

    We arrive at the insight that the will of the yogī is non-different then the will of the Supreme's will ( icchā ). This makes perfect sense. If one's individuality is absorbed in ( some say dropped) then what remains ? Only His will. And this sūtra informs us it is playful.

    Let's take it one more step with this word kumārī. Note inside it we have the word kumārī. This word mārī means to destroy. But to destroy what ? To destroy 'ku'. This 'ku' means 'little', it also means 'earth' the world of differences, of finite-ness, of smallness, differentiation.

    Now we are informed that with this independent (uma/svātantrya) energy (śākti) of the Supreme the smallness, differentiation/fragmentation, of the world is destroyed. That is, diversity found in one's awareness is now the wholeness (pūrṇa) of Being, of one's perception.

    And there is one more insightful view of kumārī ( a young maiden of perfect purity) and we can leave that for the next post and tie it all together.

    praṇām

    words & references

    • Three sections: sāmbhavopāya , śākopāya , āṇavopāya : for more insights on these words see this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=79334&postcount=2
    • kṣetrajā - is 'knowing the body' i.e. . the Self or soul; the conscious principle in the corporeal frame; this too is another name of bhairava
    • svātantrya - the following one's own will , freedom of the will , independence
    • pūrṇa - fullness, plenty, abundance; wholeness; the the 15th kalā (digit) of the month of the moon.
    Last edited by yajvan; 18 July 2016 at 11:06 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Re: veda- a hint, a symbol

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    And there is one more insightful view of kumārī ( a young maiden of perfect purity)
    The hint of kumārī ( a young maiden of perfect purity) suggests to us the yogī posessed of the SELF, the purity of Being, untouched by the world i.e. duality. This also infers no gross desires of the mind. Kumārī rests within herself with no outside desires or needs, sufficient in herself (svātantrya). This is the condition of the realized being.

    Yet there too is another way to look at this idea and it is that of umākumārī. I will let the reader pursue this definition in the śiva sūtra vimarśinī by kṣemarāja-ji if there is interest.

    Yet for me the key take-away is that yogī filled with this level of Being, of awareness is infused with the will (icchā) of the Supreme. In this condition the fullness of dharma is complete. The positive implications are great. This Being (yogī) becomes a beacon of sattva, of right action that upholds the universe.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: veda- a hint, a symbol

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté



    tri-bhugna is the position of being bent (bhugna or bhagna) in 3 places, ususally the neck, waist and knee. We see this often in various
    mūrti-s. Why so ? Is this just coincidence or is there a meaning for this?





    praām

    words
    mūrti - any solid body or material form , consisting of form
    Last edited by yajvan; 19 July 2012 at 11:25 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: veda- a hint, a symbol

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast



    tri-bhugna is the position of being bent (bhugna or bhagna) in 3 places, ususally the neck, waist and knee. We see this often in various
    mūrti-s. Why so ? Is this just coincidence or is there a meaning for this?





    praām

    words
    mūrti - any solid body or material form , consisting of form
    Namaste Yajvanacharya,

    Please tell us why it is so.

    Pranam.
    Aum Namah Shivaya
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Reality must always be real. It is not with forms and names. That which underlies these is the reality. It underlies limitations, being itself limitless. It is not bound. It underlies unrealities, itself being real. Reality is that which is. It is as it is. It transcends speech. It is beyond the expressions 'existence, non-existence', etc." ~Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi~

  9. #19
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    Re: veda- a hint, a symbol

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    tri-bhugna is the position of being bent (bhugna or bhagna) in 3 places, ususally the neck, waist and knee. We see this often in various
    mūrti-s. Why so ? Is this just coincidence or is there a meaning for this?

    This bending in 3 locations is once again a symbol, a hint ( saṃketa) of the stations the Supreme presides in.
    This '3' we can call trikoṇa meaning trine, 3, or forming a triangle. It tells us where the divine abides or manifests . What are the 3 ? It is the experient, the means of experiencing, and the object of experience. Said in different terms , it is the seer, the method of seeing and the seen.

    Consider it this way:
    • the experient or seer is the Self
    • the means of experiencing or the method of perceiving is the senses, the apparatus that brings the world to the seer or Self
    • the obect(s) of seeing is the world both physical, mental and emotional as ~objects~ of experience.
    Within ādi śaṅkara's view of reality this notion of seer,seen and object to be experinced is called out in his work Dṛg-Dṛśya Viveka.
    Within the trika view of Reality these 3 (trikoṇa) are śiva, śakti and nara. In fact devī is considered the great 3 cornered spiritual truth or mahā-vidyā. Now we get into a different naming convention for these 3 aforementioned:
    • pramātā ( the knower)
    • pramāṇa ( the means of gaining knowledge)
    • and prameya (the objects of knowledge)
    Much much more can be said about this trikoṇa , but the above should suffice to answer the initial question posed.


    iti śivaṁ

    words
    • saṃketa - a hint , sign or signal or gesture . It is rooted (√ )in kṛ meaning 'to give a signal '
    Last edited by yajvan; 10 December 2012 at 07:51 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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