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Thread: Virgin Mary

  1. #11
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    Re: Virgin Mary

    Consider that Mary bore a god-child who was "implanted" in her womb by a divine power; Devaki bore Krishna, not by physical intimacy with Vasudeva, but by divine intervention.


    Yes, it's rather an uncanny parallel, don't you think? The same is supposedly true of the birth of Gautama Buddha. His mother, Queen Mahamaya, had a dream of a white elephant entering her right side while she was sleeping, and thus was Buddha conceived. I certainly don't see it as a coincidence. I wouldn't doubt that in this respect that the Abrahmics took certain chunks (borrowed, for lack of a better word) of spirituality and religion directly from the East.

    Shian, yes I do agree that Catholics have great reverence for Mother Mary. Whether or not they'd be pressed to call her a Goddess, however, is quite another thing. And yet their epithets for Her seem to be endless: Queen of Heaven or Regina Caeli (Mata Rani as per Hindu tradition of addressing Devi), Mother of God (essentially Mother Goddess, if you think about it), Our Lady to name just a few. So maybe you're on to something. I believe on a subconscious level Catholics are engaging in worship of the Mother Goddess, but if asked explicitly to explain Mary's position in relation to God the Father, they wouldn't be able to say the same thing exactly. I realise my bhakti to the Divine Mother makes me somewhat biased here (maybe even heavily biased), but it's precisely because of the worship of Virgin Mary that I am not totally put off by Catholicism. I think it's perhaps one of the few things they've gotten right - being able to express love to God in more than just one formless form, even if they aren't totally aware of that.

    Om namah Shivaya
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

  2. #12
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    Re: Virgin Mary

    Quote Originally Posted by TouchedbytheLord View Post
    Namaste sanjaya.



    Not to split hairs, but Roman Catholics, the Orthodox, and Anglicans (I think the Anglicans too, 99% sure), only venerate and revere her, above all saints but below God. She isn't viewed on the same level as God, nor worshipped in addition to or in place of God. But she is prayed to, to intercede with God for mortals. At any rate, it is indeed a bone of contention between RC v. Protestants.
    I'm aware that on paper there is some sort of distinction. But personally I don't pray to anyone whom I don't believe can hear what I'm saying and make some sort of response. If Catholics pray to Mary, they believe that she is able to hear them. Who can hear prayers besides God? To me it makes no sense to pray to someone without considering them to be God. Not that I think there's anything wrong with this, but it does disagree with their own beliefs.

  3. #13
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    Re: Virgin Mary

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjaya View Post
    I'm aware that on paper there is some sort of distinction. But personally I don't pray to anyone whom I don't believe can hear what I'm saying and make some sort of response. If Catholics pray to Mary, they believe that she is able to hear them. Who can hear prayers besides God? To me it makes no sense to pray to someone without considering them to be God. Not that I think there's anything wrong with this, but it does disagree with their own beliefs.
    I'm on the same page as you. I never understood why we need someone or something to intercede for us with God. To say that needing prayers sent to a saint or being other than God is to say that God doesn't hear, want to hear, or respond to us. It's saying that God needs to be prodded into hearing us. I can't buy that.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  4. #14
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    Re: Virgin Mary

    I'm on the same page as you. I never understood why we need someone or something to intercede for us with God. To say that needing prayers sent to a saint or being other than God is to say that God doesn't hear, want to hear, or respond to us. It's saying that God needs to be prodded into hearing us. I can't buy that.


    Goes without saying I agree with the both of you. The intercession thing is strange. It's like polytheism in disguise or something. Take for example the colossal number of patron saints Catholics pray to when they need something in particular (e.g. praying to St. Anthony for finding lost items, and host of other reasons). I will answer honestly that when I was Catholic I prayed to Mary a lot more than I did God. I guess I was drawn to Devi even then without realising it, but I never prayed to Madonna with the intent of asking her to bring my prayers to God like She's some sort of messenger. That's just asinine.

    Om namah Shivaya
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

  5. #15

    Re: Virgin Mary

    This is i know,

    because, in bible their God have said, they must pray for each other
    and they see Virgin Mary and other Saint is their religious partner
    no matter that they already pass away, they in heaven also can pray for us. So they ask Virgin Mary to pray for them just like they ask their Christian friends.

    But why Virgin Mary is more special ? Because Virgin Mary and other Saint have reach Heaven so , their prayer is more pure than prayer from ordinary people.

    We in Hindu also found this kind of story, like when someone ask for Lord , Lord not accept his prayer, but when he ask Rishi or very dear bhakta of Lord to beg for hope, Lord give the blessing to him.

    Then, when they contemplate on Saints, they also contemplate to their karma yoga , how to serve Lord

    This is their point of view.
    I just explain, no any other meaning

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  6. #16

    Re: Virgin Mary

    Namaste all,

    Indeed I agree with many of the points made on this thread. I actually know a fair bit about Catholicism since of my closest friends converted to Catholicism and practiced it quite devoutly for a few years before becoming an atheist. He told me before how many Catholics pray more to Mary than they do to God. He also said how, as TBTL pointed out, the "official" teaching of the Catholic Church is that Mary, although she is above all the other saints, is still below God and she doesn't have any actual power to answer prayers, she just petitions to God...Yet he said that many Catholics pray to Mary as though she herself can actually answer prayers.

    Sunyata also makes a great point about it being a positive aspect of Catholicism that they even venerate a female figure to such high regard, whereas this is absent in most other forms of Christianity. I agree that it's a somewhat positive thing, but that's pretty much the only positive thing that Catholicism has going for women. The Catholic Church still teaches that women should be subservient to men, husbands rule over wives, and also wives have a certain "debt" that they are obligated to pay their husbands if they demand it......but yes, I agree that it is positive to see a female figure like Mary so highly revered

    Jai Sri Ram
    Sanatana Dharma ki Jai!
    Jai Hanuman

  7. #17

    Re: Virgin Mary

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramakrishna View Post
    Namaste all,

    Indeed I agree with many of the points made on this thread. I actually know a fair bit about Catholicism since of my closest friends converted to Catholicism and practiced it quite devoutly for a few years before becoming an atheist.

    Jai Sri Ram
    Then, can you tell me why your friend become atheist ?
    interesting

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  8. #18

    Re: Virgin Mary

    Namaste Shian,

    Quote Originally Posted by shian View Post
    Then, can you tell me why your friend become atheist ?
    interesting
    He pretty much just gradually realized that it wasn't true. Studying evolution is what really did it for him, as it led him to realize that Catholicism and Christianity in general aren't true. He also became sick and tired of the authoritarian and controlling nature of the Catholic Church and wanted more freedom and room for tolerance in his life. He was also a "traditionalist Catholic", which I don't really want to talk about on HDF, but if you look them up you will see that they are a small minority who oppose the "modernization" of Catholicism and they are extremely intolerant and bigoted. My friend said that he never really felt comfortably while he was Catholic (especially in the traditionalist sect), and he really only converted because he grew up in a Protestant family and he was never satisfied with Protestant Christianity, and certain aspects of Catholicism were initially attractive to him.

    Jai Sri Ram
    Sanatana Dharma ki Jai!
    Jai Hanuman

  9. #19

    Re: Virgin Mary

    The 15 Promises Of Mary To Christian who Recite Rosary
    (see, from this 15 promises , we know that Mary not only : " she doesn't have any actual power to answer prayers, she just petitions to God.")
    This 15 promises is proof that Christians believe Mary more than that

    1. Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the rosary, shall receive signal graces.
    2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the rosary.
    3. The rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.
    4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the heart of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify them- selves by this means.
    5. The soul which recommend itself to me by the recitation of the rosary, shall not perish.
    6. Whoever shall recite the rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.
    7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the rosary shall not die without the sacraments of the Church.
    8. Those who are faithful to recite the rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise.
    9. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the rosary.
    10. The faithful children of the rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in heaven.(well, if heaven is eternal, sho the high or low degree must be eternal according to merit in world, well ... their final heaven still have degree)
    11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the rosary.
    12. All those who propagate the holy rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
    13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death.
    14. All who recite the rosary are my son, and brothers of my only son Jesus Christ
    15. Devotion of my rosary is a great sign of predestination.
    (Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan)

    I not mean to rejected the rosary devotion, they can do it with sincere heart, this will good for their mind,
    so here i only learn it by other way.

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  10. #20

    Re: Virgin Mary

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramakrishna View Post
    Namaste Shian,



    He pretty much just gradually realized that it wasn't true. Studying evolution is what really did it for him, as it led him to realize that Catholicism and Christianity in general aren't true. He also became sick and tired of the authoritarian and controlling nature of the Catholic Church and wanted more freedom and room for tolerance in his life. He was also a "traditionalist Catholic", which I don't really want to talk about on HDF, but if you look them up you will see that they are a small minority who oppose the "modernization" of Catholicism and they are extremely intolerant and bigoted. My friend said that he never really felt comfortably while he was Catholic (especially in the traditionalist sect), and he really only converted because he grew up in a Protestant family and he was never satisfied with Protestant Christianity, and certain aspects of Catholicism were initially attractive to him.

    Jai Sri Ram
    Interesting of evolution of faith
    But not every people who need more space will leave Catholic or another religion, we was find many people still in their religion but create a new rules of God by their own tought according to their personal experience.
    For example the idea about Homosexual
    The idea about polygamy
    and also idea about God personality

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


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