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Thread: Why are some people continually punished?

  1. #1
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    Why are some people continually punished?

    Why does God allow some people to be born with deformities and then continue to be punished their whole lives? Does God care that this happens and, if he does, then why does he not do something to correct it? This makes it very hard for me to believe in God or care about him if he exists. It seems that the people God loves are the ones who are healthy, wealthy and enjoy great pleasures.
    Om Radha Krishnaya Namaha

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    Re: Why are some people continually punished?

    Namaste Patrick,

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickMB View Post
    Why does God allow some people to be born with deformities and then continue to be punished their whole lives? Does God care that this happens and, if he does, then why does he not do something to correct it? This makes it very hard for me to believe in God or care about him if he exists. It seems that the people God loves are the ones who are healthy, wealthy and enjoy great pleasures.
    This punishment is due to violation of the Laws of Nature and God, normally, doesn't interfere into that. It is due to one's karmas. There are good Karmas which bring us favourable chances in life and there are bad Karmas which bring us unfavourable chances in life. The laws of nature demands that we should not cause injury to any other being i.e. we should follow the path of Ahimsa. Now, when you violate this law you accrue bad Karmas in your account of Karmas. Similarly, when you do something to make one person happy, you save anyone's life, you help a poor being etc. you accrue good Karmas into your account of Karmas. These Karmas make you take births after births to suffer/enjoy the fruits of your Karmas. Depending upon what is in store for you, you are born in certain circumstances in a certain body. What Karmas are good for us and what is bad ... is told by Lord Krishna in detail in Bhagwad Gita. It has been told even through Itihasas like Ramayana and Mahabharata. It has been also indicated through Yama and Niyama in many scriptures.

    God is not the cause of your Karma and he also doesn't decide the fruits of your Karmas. It is like a strict code on Karma which is in force in nature. You perform some Karma & the resultant fruits of that Karmas will come to you at the opportune moment. God extends help in many forms if one asks for it sincerely.

    God cannot have any incentive to be partial to anyone. He loves everyone equally. If you love Him, he tries to create chances which would help you to overcome the effects of your Karmas easily. However, He too doesn't go against the Laws of Nature. So, He helps within certain limits without flouting the laws of Karmas. So, if your Karmas have been too bad, it would happen that you keep praying but you won't apparently get any respite from your sufferings ... this is because it is in your own good that you undergo those sufferings which would purify you from bad Karmas. When you ask for some favourable chances, it would very largely depend upon how much balance of good Karmas you have in your account of Karmas which decides whether what you want comes to you or otherwise.

    The people who you see enjoying life, healthy, wealthy etc. ... earned it through their Karmas. You too can earn it ... there is absolutely no discrimination against you. Please go ahead & earn good karmas ... God will certainly help you.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #3

    Re: Why are some people continually punished?

    Namasté PatrickMB,

    You need to look to your understanding of Karma, to understand how to free this doubt. You must work on letting go of "I-ness" to understand this.
    Your current life is the culmination of all your previous lives. It is within your reach to be free from any pain caused by current suffering. To understand the universality of the atman. It is not ours to ask why, but to assume that which we have, it is the only way to find peace and contentment.

    I have worked along side some of the richest people in the world. You can believe me when I tell you that their "posture" and status. Is not one which necessarily makes them content. They are the same as everybody else, if anything; more of them are alone, deluded and unhappy. Their Obsessive nature being that which brings them material wealth but it does not bring happiness.

    It is you alone that can develop your posture and transform your life into one of contentment. Pain can be the catalyst for a much faster path to realisation.

    I wish you well and pray for you in the distress that you seem to be experiencing.

    praNAma

    mana

    Aum Shri Ganeshaya Namah.

  4. #4

    Re: Why are some people continually punished?

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickMB View Post
    Why does God allow some people to be born with deformities and then continue to be punished their whole lives? Does God care that this happens and, if he does, then why does he not do something to correct it? This makes it very hard for me to believe in God or care about him if he exists. It seems that the people God loves are the ones who are healthy, wealthy and enjoy great pleasures.
    If your belief in God is as him being a person who crafts humans by hand and willfully creates some of them deformed and destined for lifetime of suffering - then you are better off without such a belief. Indeed, it is hard to believe or care of such a God...though 4 billion people of this people indeed do, including the chunk of Hindus. Please get rid of him, it is better for the world.

    In all Indian and even eastern religions (even one's proclaiming personal distinct God), this issue is adequately solved - but before you look for alternatives, better throw away the wrong God.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

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    Re: Why are some people continually punished?

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickMB View Post
    Why does God allow some people to be born with deformities and then continue to be punished their whole lives?
    Vannakkam Patrick: I see that you are holding on to the one lifetime mentality. Just as we have our ups and downs in this lifetime, so too do we have our ups and downs over many lifetimes. What you see is just a down moment in the 100s of lifetimes cycle.

    A decent analogy I heard recently is the mala (many lifetimes, the cycle) to the one bead on the mala (one lifetime). You are the mala, not the bead.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Why are some people continually punished?

    Whenever we face adversities and we don't grow out of them, we are bound to face them over and over again.

    Some karmas are tough, some are blissful, both ends of the same spectrum. God's purpose is not our pleasure, that's a very egoistical line of thought.

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    Re: Why are some people continually punished?

    During all my years growing up in an Italian American Roman Catholic family all I heard was "it's God's will " (that shrug was very important to show how helpless we humans are against God, and at His mercy) when a baby died or someone had cancer. Or I heard from my grandmother and mother "si vuo' Di'!" ("God willing"). Everything was God does this, God did that, God will... ad nauseum.

    Point... I never believed that as a Christian, nor will I ever believe it as a Hindu. God does not visit sickness and pain and death upon people. Why does it happen, then? Any number of reasons from bad genetics to bad karma, but it is not because of God, in my view.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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    Re: Why are some people continually punished?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Consider this point of view which does not specifically answer the question yet adds some perspective to the matter...

    Take the most wretched of men and put his finger into a flame. Will he not get burned? Take the most saintly of men and do the same. Does his finger burn ? No doubt yes.

    Take the same men and put them into an elevator ... press the 7th floor. Does the elevator 99.9999% of the time reach the 7th floor ? Yes.

    The laws of nature of fire, or of a mechanism the pulls the elevator up-and-down are applied to both humans in question. They are person-neutral.

    The laws of nature are applied to all. The sun shines on all of us the same. The sun does not make exceptions. Yet at times we see clouds. The clouds cover a city and no sun comes through. But from the point of the sun, He is shining down on the total earth, He has made no exceptions.

    So, we see some people suffer , others not. We look to the sun and say why do you not shine the same on these people? To the Sun, His rays are the same. To our POV they are not and we call out foul.

    It must be something we do not understand or miss, no? Unfathomable is the course of action, says kṛṣṇa-jī (bhāgavad gītā 4.17) .

    I walk down the street and get hit by a truck - this was not my choice today. Can someone take this event apart? Was it 1/3rd influenced by this life (āgama karma), 2/3rd past life some call sañcita karma? Who knows ?

    Yet as I see it, it is karma śarīra - the body ( śarīra) of actions (karma) that surrounds us that are guided by the same laws of nature that functions in the universe... to this it brings awe to me.

    We live in a universe that is orderly and runs by laws. They apply to all , albeit on multiple levels ( physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, etc).

    We see suffering and cry foul; yet are we aware of all the innumerable laws that may be at work for this suffering to occur. Unfathomable is the course of action.


    praām
    Last edited by yajvan; 10 October 2011 at 03:45 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Why are some people continually punished?

    Forgive that I come so late to these conversations I have been ill.

    Many wise words above me, so I will try to honor those by increasing upon them.

    Beloved please help me do so...

    There was a good post about suffering prior to this, and very recent in my mind. Here- http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...ight=suffering

    In that thread much of this is discussed.

    What about a disabled child such as my own? Many many times it isn't the child's karma at all. It's the parents.

    As a mother to four disabled children, one who could not walk until she was in the Spring before she began school...was in a wheelchair for most of her infancy...I believe it is very arrogant to assume a karma is due to one person alone...specifically my hurting child. When I look at my children, I feel each of us had some portion of this obligation. Myself probably more than my own child.

    The child isn't the only one who learns/suffers from the disablity. In fact, as their parent I have spent most of my time here trying to find the best therapy, doing home therapy. Even bought a home with a private pool so that the child could continue weight therapy via water as indication by her four therapists. Most of the accomodations were upon the rest of us. Not at all upon the child who was seemingly "suffering". This beautiful child...she only knew this disability, to her...it was her natural state. Yes, yes, she suffered...and we all do. But, in the end the learning, the great vast amount of growth which occured in this suffering outweigh the very disability.

    We make the most with what we are given. Every day, another chance to learn, grow...improve and move forward!

    I know with all my heart how difficult this is to do, but the best thing to do each morning is thank Beloved for this new day and keep swimming.

    This morning is my first morning home from the hospital. Two weeks ago I had an SVT event with my heart and was rushed by ambulance to the hospital. For weeks now, I have been severely ill. My heart did not recover so quickly. I am forty years old just turned, I have 8 children..the youngest 7 year old twins...and this is just not good timing for me to leave this realm.

    So slowly I move through my day, and more tests...and this morning I tell you. Thank Beloved for this day! Thank Beloved for every day full of, pain, sorrow, joy, anger, frustration, excitement, laughter and tears!

    Suffering not in my vocabulary! Learning, triumph...progress! These words are the value of my day. These children will be given these words only...and suffering will be pushed through, shoved aside and ignored.

    We can not change the things which may befall us...or how we are born. We can only change how we respond.

    I have watched my own child dead upon the hospital bed...as my doctor and I cried together. I have sat holding the hand of countless hundreds of dying people...including my own Mother as she pass from this realm. I tell you, no matter what happens here...not one thing can change the Portion you truly are...just have to find a way to work with these less than perfect vessels...so that this One can shine through<3


    Edited to add-

    Thank you for all the kind words. But, if you have a prayer to spare please include my little nephew Nome, he was in surgery yesterday to remove his lymph nodes to diagnose potential cancer. This young man really needs well wishes so much. Also, there was one in the hospital in the telemetry unit with me in gravely ill situation he is dying...(I heard him called Mr. Fred as they came countless times to revive him from his cardiac events) This one also has a very dire need for every well wish you have.
    Last edited by NayaSurya; 13 October 2011 at 10:35 AM.

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    Re: Why are some people continually punished?

    Namaste Naya,

    Sorry to hear about all the trials and tribulations that you have been going through. I pray that you get well soon and be able to care for the little ones who need you now and will continue to need you for a long time to come.

    Pranam.

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