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Thread: Creation and Advaita !

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    Creation and Advaita !

    Creation and Advaita:

    It looks like an oxymoron to me. If Advaita is all there is, then there was no necessity of creation! If the starting point and ending point of a man�s life is the same (Advaita), I think that the process of creation itself takes on a new meaning that does overshadow Advaita. In light of this reality that creation indeed took place, where does Advaita address this reality? In my view Advaita truly limits its ability to address this point in a meaningful way!

    Einstein�s famous quote �God does not play dice� is very meaningful in that it implies there is an intent and specific purpose to His creation, which certainly is not with any malicious intent. From an Advaitic standpoint this intent and purpose is lost completely when God created us!

    Therefore, we cannot deny that Dvaita has come into being at the moment of creation. Let us exchange and explore the reason and meaning behind the drive to creation. In fact, this was my very first earnest post but, unfortunately it was hijacked to another extreme.

    Blessings,
    Last edited by devotee; 14 September 2014 at 01:40 AM.

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    Re: Creation and Advaita !

    In my opinion, creation is without beginning or end, not a discrete event ... and by extension, the notion that time is linear is illusion, an artifact of language.

    Hope that helps resolve your conundrum


    Namaste,
    ZN
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

  3. #3

    Re: Creation and Advaita !

    Quote Originally Posted by Znanna View Post
    In my opinion, creation is without beginning or end, not a discrete event ... and by extension, the notion that time is linear is illusion, an artifact of language.

    Hope that helps resolve your conundrum


    Namaste,
    ZN
    Dear Znanna:

    Perhaps, you are confusing with definition of terms:

    Creation: To cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve that is not made by ordinary processes: Material (Universe, man)

    Uncreated: Not having been created: Immaterial (God)

    Therefore, the creation has a beginning and perhaps, an end too!

    I am talking about creation and not uncreated ! ! !

    Blessings,

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    Exclamation Re: Creation and Advaita !

    Namaste nirotu,

    Good to note that you are approaching a subject in a generic, philosophical and spiritual way, rising above 'labels'.

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu View Post
    It looks like an oxymoron to me. If Advaita is all there is, then there was no necessity of creation! ... I think that the process of creation itself takes on a new meaning that does overshadow Advaita. In light of this reality that creation indeed took place, where does Advaita address this reality? In my view Advaita truly limits its ability to address this point in a meaningful way!

    Einstein’s famous quote “God does not play dice” is very meaningful in that it implies there is an intent and specific purpose to His creation, which certainly is not with any malicious intent. From an Advaitic standpoint this intent and purpose is lost completely when God created us!

    Therefore, we cannot deny that Dvaita has come into being at the moment of creation. Let us exchange and explore the reason and meaning behind the drive to creation. In fact, this was my very first earnest post but, unfortunately it was hijacked to another extreme.
    The answer to the purpose of creation, that is advaita becoming dvaita, thereby seeming to dilute or lose its identity, can only be inferred by man, from his day to day experiences and habitual acts.

    First of all, who are you 'nirotu'? Are you your body? Your soul? Or both, perhaps? If you are a soul then why did you acquire a body? Do you know about the time you were just a pure soul (advaita) and then took a body (dvaita)? Do you know the personal history of your own soul?

    Alright, these things are out of your hands, so you cannot possibly know your pre-birth, birth, death and post-mortem (curiously, the word pre-mortem is not found in the dictionary, maybe according to the Christian concept of one birth and one death). So let us examine the present you, you who are living now, with a body and soul.

    What and who are you now in this birth? A man, son, brother, friend, youth, citizen, employee, boss or whatever else it is? I am not talking about the physical forms you take for these generic roles you have to play. I am referring to the mental makeup that goes with these physical forms. Of such differing personalitities, which is the real you? Do you know it? Can you know it? Have you tried to find the answers to these pertinent, personal questions before venturing on a generic question? If you did try, what did you find? If you did not, why not look at you to start with, before looking around or above?

    Who are you when you are awake and experience this world? Why do you become (sometimes totally) a different person in your dreams? Who and what and where are you in your deep sleep? Why do you need to wake up at all and recreate all your world that was not there in your sleep?

    Can you just be what you really are for a day? An hour? Or at least for some moments, without being anything else that is not the real you?

    The answer to the reason and meaning behind the drive to creation, advaita becoming dvaita is that--keep your fingers crossed!--there is no answer!. No man knows it. No angel knows it. No archangel knows it. Even the Creator--Brahma in my label--does not know it! For he is just another poor God with a cycle of birth and death! Only Brahman knows it, such a secret it is! There is no use in probing it, before we probe our own self. At the time of Self-Realization, the Turiya state, perhaps we may have an idea, but there again you wouldn't be able to put it in words or thoughts what you actually realised!

    All the best in what your are seeking. If and when you find the answer to your questions, don't forget to let me know. But then I would like to verify it with my own Self!

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    Re: Creation and Advaita !

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu View Post
    Creation and Adviata:

    It looks like an oxymoron to me. If Advaita is all there is, then there was no necessity of creation! If the starting point and ending point of a man’s life is the same (Advaita), I think that the process of creation itself takes on a new meaning that does overshadow Advaita. In light of this reality that creation indeed took place, where does Advaita address this reality? In my view Advaita truly limits its ability to address this point in a meaningful way!
    Advaita is all there is. But need not be undifferentiated consciousness. Scriptures give many accounts of creation (puruSa sUktam, nAsadiya sUktam etc), and in every case it is explained that Brahman 'desired' to become many. Consequently, there is no point in dismissing its reality. Those who uphold "non creation" turn a blind eye to 99.99% of the scripture and build a thesis out of the remaning 0.01%.

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu View Post
    Einstein’s famous quote “God does not play dice” is very meaningful in that it implies there is an intent and specific purpose to His creation, which certainly is not with any malicious intent. From an Advaitic standpoint this intent and purpose is lost completely when God created us!

    Therefore, we cannot deny that Dvaita has come into being at the moment of creation. Let us exchange and explore the reason and meaning behind the drive to creation. In fact, this was my very first earnest post but, unfortunately it was hijacked to another extreme.

    Blessings,
    Brahman, being free of desires himself, cannot create anything for himself, in dream or reality. His creation is for the welfare of others, who coexist eternally. For some mysterious reason, innumerable number of souls have become ignorant of their true nature. By creating this world, God has given us an opportunity to get rid of ignorance. Only in this world can one realize God. Of course, God can remove the ignorance of souls without such a complex means, but to pass judgement on that, you need to know how or why you became ignorant. As Sai mentioned, certain things about creation are mysterious, not even Brahma knows fully.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: Creation and Advaita !

    In the second part of the mANDUkya Upanishad, creation theories are discussed:

    I-7. Those who think of creation hold it as the manifestation of God's power; while others fancy that (wrongly imagine) creation as same as dream and illusion.

    I-8. Creation is the mere will of the Lord, say those who thought out well the process of creation, but those who rely upon time hold that the birth of beings is from time.

    I-9. Some others hold that creation is for the enjoyment of God, yet others say that it is for His sport. But it(creation) is the very nature of the resplendent Being, for what desire can he have whose desire is all fulfilled?

    1-7 rules out creation resulting from God vainly exercising his power, or creation being an illusion or a dream.

    1-8 suggests that God willed creation ( note "who thought out well the process of creation"), and consequently creation becomes an actively driven event. This is well supported by all creation accounts given by scripture. ( that God willed creation)

    1-9 rejects notions such as creation being for the pleasure of God, or sport being direct causes. It is additionally mentioned that God has no desires for himself. Yet (1-8) imples God willed creation. If not for oneself, the desire is obviously for those different from him. God makes others happy through his creation by providing the sufficient tools and resources to overcome the ignorance that veils the true nature of the soul. It is the supreme being's uncaused mercy towards others that made him create. It is sometimes called a 'sport' because one wonders if God needed so much paraphernalia to give enlightenment to the souls. The soul has wrongly imagined that "I am independent of God" and so on, and this ignorance is removed only by some lessons learnt here.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: Creation and Advaita !

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Namaste nirotu,

    -------
    The answer to the reason and meaning behind the drive to creation, advaita becoming dvaita is that--keep your fingers crossed!--------- Only Brahman knows it, such a secret it is! There is no use in probing it, before we probe our own self. --------

    Nicely said.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Creation and Advaita !

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu View Post
    Creation and Adviata:

    -------

    Einstein’s famous quote “God does not play dice” is very meaningful in that it implies there is an intent and specific purpose to His creation, which certainly is not with any malicious intent. From an Advaitic standpoint this intent and purpose is lost completely when God created us!

    -------

    Blessings,

    Namaste,

    Though, Saidevo ji has praised you, I do not see anything to praise you about. Everytime, it seems that you have made up your mind, since you alone had a direct talk with God about his intent.

    And your writing above is a just short of implying as if Advaita ascribes malicious intent to the creation. Just short.


    Nice Shri Nirotu.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Creation and Advaita !

    Ignoring the 'intent' of the OP for a moment, I do not understand how 'GOD' can 'will'.

    Willing a creation implies that he/she has desires. If he as GOD still has desires, we got ourselves a big problem as this GOD is no better than you and me then. Perhaps if he himself has desires he should meditate and redisover the SELF.

    What's the original sanskrit word that is translated to mean 'will'?
    satay

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    Re: Creation and Advaita !

    Usually iccha or kAma is used for desire in the original sanskrit verses.

    Taiitiryopanishad says this: - so-akAmayata | bahusyAm prajAyeyeti|

    nAsadIya sukta explicitly says kAmaH or desire involved in the creation.

    Desire of God is not to satisfy his - but yours! Imagine yourself to be in the hospital ready to undergo a surgery, and just apply the situation if God had no will to act. Unless God had a will and listens to you, his worship gets reduced to nothing. ( an equivalent of bouddham)
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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