Pak textbooks foster hatred of Hindus

[Satyaban]

[quote=Spiritualseeker;74851]Namaste all,

Oh no here we go again, another Muslim claimingthey don't trust hadith. occif you do not trust hadith then stop doing yourfive daily prayers. The methods in which Muslims perform their prayers in itsdetail five times a day does not come from the Qur'an, but from the hadith. TheQur'an mentions ruku, prostration, etc.. but it does not go into details of howthe prayer is perform. In order to follow this then you have to accept thehadith. If you don’t trust hadith, then stop doing the prayers the way you weretaught.

I see that you posted a link to a Shia Muslimwebsite. As you are a follower of the so called Ahluh Bayt of Muhammad ibnabdullah, then you must have come across your own Shia hadith?

Oh nohere we go again is right. This woman is being treated by some as I am on theweb site she has cited. As I have said before I have been called names that Iwon’t repeat besides a pagan and idol worshipper but the worst is when theyattempt to tell me of my own faith, as I see happening here and not in aconstructive manner. Can we hold her to account for the actions of otherMuslims, I don’t think so. Should we treat her faith with respect, I know so.Should we treat her with respect, I think so she has done nothing to lose it.

Thesenine beliefs I put into practice, far from perfectly, everyday.

1. Ibelieve in the divinity of the Vedas, the world’s most ancient scripture, andvenerate the Agamas as equally revealed. These primordial hymns are God's wordand the bedrock of Sanätana Dharma, the eternal religion which has neitherbeginning nor end.

2. Ibelieve in a one, all-pervasive Supreme Being who is both immanent andtranscendent, both Creator and Unmanifest Reality.

3. Ibelieve that the universe undergoes endless cycles of creation, preservationand dissolution.

4. Ibelieve in karma, the law of cause and effect by which each individual createshis own destiny by his thoughts, words and deeds.

5. Ibelieve that the soul reincarnates, evolving through many births until allkarmas have been resolved, and moksha, spiritual knowledge and liberation fromthe cycle of rebirth, is attained. Not a single soul will be eternally deprivedof this destiny.

6. Ibelieve that divine beings exist in unseen worlds and that temple worship,rituals, sacraments as well as personal devotionals create a communion withthese devas and Gods.

7. Ibelieve that a spiritually awakened master, or satguru, is essential to knowthe Transcendent Absolute, as are personal discipline, good conduct,purification, pilgrimage, self-inquiry and meditation.

8. Ibelieve that all life is sacred, to be loved and revered, and therefore practiceahimsa, "noninjury?'

9. Ibelieve that no particular religion teaches the only way to salvation above allothers, but that all genuine religious paths are facets of God's Pure Love andLight, deserving tolerance and understanding.

Iwould very much appreciate knowledgeable correction on where I misapply thesebeliefs.

Peace

[Satyaban]

Namaste all,




Oh no here we go again, another muslim claiming they don't trust hadith. occ if you do not trust hadith then stop doing your five daily prayers. The methods in which muslims perform their prayers in its detail five times a day does not come from the Qur'an, but from the hadith. The Qur'an mentions ruku, prostration, etc.. but it does not go into details of how the prayer is perform. In order to follow this then you have to accept the hadith. If you don't trust hadith, then stop doing the prayers the way you were taught.

I see that you posted a link to a Shia Muslim website. As you are a follower of the so called Ahluh Bayt of Muhammad ibn abdullah, then you must have come across your own Shia hadith?

Concerning your claims that the ayaat about Jihad were against those that broke covenants, this is a true statement on your part concerning that particular ayah. However, there are other ayaat of the Quran in Surah Muhammad and Surah 9 and Surah 2 that speak about Jihad not only in defense and against those that break covenants, but also to fight OFFENSIVELY against nations around in order to raise the name of Allah uppermost. That is why Muhammad wanted jews and christians expelled from the peninsula, and wanted war with romans and persians. He also spoke of Islam conquering everywhere. The entire world is Islamic in the eyes of Muhammads prophecy.

Even Imam Ali, who is the leader of Ahluh bayt after Muhammad was a great murderer. This supposed Leader of the Faithful murdered people because they began worshipping him. This is authenticated not only by Sunnis, but also the followers of Ahluh bayt (in ALL Shia sects). What inspired him to do so? Ayaat from the Qur'an concerning killing apostates and those that are polytheist.

Modern Muslim trickery concerning not trusting hadith and so on will not work against a people who truly study the history of Islam. Just like one cannot be tricked who know the history and formation of Christianity.

Om Tryambakam Yajamahe
Sugandhim Pushtivardhanam
Urvarukamiva Bandhanan
Mrityor Mukshiya Maamritat

Oh nohere we go again is right. This woman is being treated by some as I am on theweb site she has cited. As I have said before I have been called names that Iwon’t repeat besides a pagan and idol worshipper but the worst is when theyattempt to tell me of my own faith, as I see happening here and not in aconstructive manner. Can we hold her to account for the actions of otherMuslims, I don’t think so. Should we treat her faith with respect, I know so.Should we treat her with respect, I think so she has done nothing to lose it.

Thesenine beliefs I put into practice, far from perfectly, everyday.

1. Ibelieve in the divinity of the Vedas, the world’s most ancient scripture, andvenerate the Agamas as equally revealed. These primordial hymns are God's wordand the bedrock of Sanätana Dharma, the eternal religion which has neitherbeginning nor end.

2. Ibelieve in a one, all-pervasive Supreme Being who is both immanent andtranscendent, both Creator and Unmanifest Reality.

3. Ibelieve that the universe undergoes endless cycles of creation, preservationand dissolution.

4. Ibelieve in karma, the law of cause and effect by which each individual createshis own destiny by his thoughts, words and deeds.

5. Ibelieve that the soul reincarnates, evolving through many births until allkarmas have been resolved, and moksha, spiritual knowledge and liberation fromthe cycle of rebirth, is attained. Not a single soul will be eternally deprivedof this destiny.

6. Ibelieve that divine beings exist in unseen worlds and that temple worship,rituals, sacraments as well as personal devotionals create a communion withthese devas and Gods.

7. Ibelieve that a spiritually awakened master, or satguru, is essential to knowthe Transcendent Absolute, as are personal discipline, good conduct,purification, pilgrimage, self-inquiry and meditation.

8. Ibelieve that all life is sacred, to be loved and revered, and therefore practiceahimsa, "noninjury?'

9. Ibelieve that no particular religion teaches the only way to salvation above allothers, but that all genuine religious paths are facets of God's Pure Love andLight, deserving tolerance and understanding.

Iwould very much appreciate knowledgeable correction on where I misapply these beliefs.

Peace

[Satyaban]

My every attempy to correct the two above posts results in failure. I click to edit the post but am not allowed to save my changes, nor can I delete them.
I make corrections in my word processor but when I paste it I wind up runin words.

I give up.

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

Oh nohere we go again is right. This woman is being treated by some as I am on theweb site she has cited. As I have said before I have been called names that Iwon’t repeat besides a pagan and idol worshipper but the worst is when theyattempt to tell me of my own faith, as I see happening here and not in aconstructive manner. Can we hold her to account for the actions of otherMuslims, I don’t think so. Should we treat her faith with respect, I know so.Should we treat her with respect, I think so she has done nothing to lose it

I am not trying to tell her what her belief is. We all are individuals and many people within religions choose views that are unique to themselves. I encourage ohhcuppycake to continue having these views if she so wishes. I am only pointing out about some of the major figures whom she admires. I mentioned Imam Ali, because she gave us a link to a shia site. I cannot hold her accountable for Imam Ali's terrorism, but I can point out so that people can know. Just because she has her views that do not conform with the terrorism of Muhammad and Ali, doesn't mean I should remain silent. It is not attack against her. I am speaking about Islam. I am also speaking of the major figures that many muslims look up to and admire while at the same time thinking that Muhammad and Ali were not murderers.

Why does these views occur? Quite frankly it is due to ignorance concerning these figures. I can go to a lecture at the Islamic center here and they can tell me how Muhammad was peaceful and how good Islam is. I can commend the congregation for being tolerant, but at the same time I know from experience of learning about Islam that this is not the case. Many Shia claim that the terrorist are 'wahabis' (by this they mean the Salafi sect, but call them Wahabi as an insult because one salafi teacher was Muhammad ibn abdul wahab who supposedly revived Islamic monotheism in Arabia). Now we can all rest and say 'yea just the wahabis', but when I look at even the Shia imams in particular Imam Ali (who is the greatest of the 12 imams), then I see that he is also a terrorist. If im a president and some people begin to worship me and I have them murdered by throwing them into a pit of fire, the world will brand me terrorist. If a group of Muslims converts back to Christianity and I execute them, I will be branded a terrorist. If I take homosexuals and cause a wall of cement to fall upon them to crush them to death, I am going to be branded a terrorist. With that said, I am just pointing out that Muhammad and Ali are a terrorist.

People like to scoff at things that others point out about the Qur'an and Muhammad in a way to deny it. I am glad they are peace loving, but if we are talking about grave issues in which people are being murdered due to following in the foot steps of Muhammad and Imam Ali, then I want to correct this so that other people who read these post don't start thinking, 'oh just the terrorist have misinterpreted" Then they go convert to Islam read about the verse concerning beating ones wife and then try to explain it away in order to justify it. "Oh its just a light hit with a feather!" "Oh you cant leave a mark on your wife when you beat them, yes Islam is peace and give women much rights, its just the terrorist that don't understand"

Perhaps it is arrogance or a bitterness that I point these things out, but I don't want people to experience Islam as I did and be sucked in to such blind, dry, 6th century ideology.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Satyaban]

Namaste

I think I understand where you are coming from although I have not had your experience with Islam.. Because of that I am not one to offer advice and perhaps I am not qualified to offer anyone advice. However I know a bit about myself and when I hold bitterness in my heart nothing good comes of it so I stress keeping The Nine Hindu Beliefs in front of me along with what I have learned. One thing I do know is that bitterness and hate are feeling that are fed by ego, they are not fact and will pass.

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

Thank you, I will take your words into my inquiry.


Om Namo Bhagavati Rudraya

[charitra]

I LIVED in central Iran in a big city for a few years in nineties and witnessed its social life first hand. People live in fear. They are jealous of our freedom , we can travel abroad or leave when we please. People were stoned to death, hanged from bridges in public view, the bodies were left in public view for all to see for a couple of days. Freedom of speech unheard of (watch the (msnbc) news thats making a buzz since yesterday, on Pakistan’s ban of some 1500 words on internet, texting etc.). Man and woman interaction is viewed with suspicion and public flogging was the norm. Jealous men get rid of their wives with false accusations of adultery and see them off to the gallows. Unmarried girls are not supposed to be killed as virgins according to religion; a sepah pasdaar (religious police) first rapes them and only then the hanging takes place. Two different types of judiciary runs in parallel, one similar to what we all know. The other is a completely Islamized one, being superior of the two and functions with a stern finality headed by clerics. Clerics will have their own law enforcement agency with sepah and basij wings ensuring implementation of ‘purity’ in the society. Minorities (Zorashstrians, Bahaiis, Jews and Christians) live in fear; they are jailed or hanged on false charges of spying and drugs. All opponents of regime become drug pushers, spies and simply antiislamists. Same sex relationship and apostasy clearly means death.

Westerners are lured into this faith by disclosing halftruths and, women turn easier victims to this fatal attraction. The teaching inmosques is to attract a nonmuslim into relationship and convert her to Islam with a promise of marriage. The divorce is as easy as uttering the word divorce thrice, other than paying the agreed amount at the time of marriage, leaving not much room for any legal battle over the alimony or kids. Only a cleric can head family courts. Those nonmuslim women who want to marry a muslim must not undergo Islamic marriage for their own safety and must refuse to convert. Remember, the argument is always same: Oh, its just a formality, sign a paper to convert and then sign a contract of marriage, no big deal, all this only to please the family or else the marriage will be viewed as illegal. Women, ironically, always fall for this trap without any exception. Polygamy is religion sanctioned and mind you opposing it is seriously illegal. If wife opposes for a second wife go divorce her. The key is about honoring and paying the severance package agreed upon at the time of wedding, no litigation allowed. Most clerics themselves have multiple wives. They used to encourage us (hindus), ’just get circumcised and get a wife’. Getting a wife is easy. Father’s decision is final in matrimonial alliances; literally one can buy a wife, more money the merrier. Clerics refuse marrying a girl without father's permission regardless of age, on the other hand (young) age is no bar, any child bride can be given away. Girls who refuse marriage (on the day of marriage agreeing is required) will be threatened by parents and brothers, beaten and even branded as of ‘low character’. Terror is the key. Carnal desires of men are quite comfortablysatiated by the all accommodative faith. We are talking about a land where women are allowed to go to college and work. I cant imagine the fate in other lands where women aren’t even allowed these freedoms.

Crime, as we all know, happens everywhere. But the problem here is it is supervised by a cleric. Its not cultural aberrations we are talking about here, its the constitution. Every word Spiritual seeker says is true, the 6th century cruel manual is followed to the last word in ISLAMIC republics (and Islamic ghettoes in innonislamic countries). He studied the scriptures and I witnessed it happening in the street.Those of you challenging us are inadvertently helping the crime to perpetuate and go uncorrected. Calling this hate speech tantamounts to opposing human rights. Namaste.

[Satyaban]

Namaste charitra

I believe every word you said but fail to see the relationship to text books in Pakistan. Can you help me out by explaining the relationship.

I have not read a translation of any Pakistani text books but would not be surprised if they are not accurate in history or use racist stories in reading and language class because it is institutionalized. I do not doubt for a minute it is much worse in the mandrasses who I understand are supported by KSA money. But I don't know what we can do about it does anyone else?

[ohhcuppycakee]

I LIVED in central Iran in a big city for a few years in nineties and witnessed its social life first hand. People live in fear. They are jealous of our freedom , we can travel abroad or leave when we please. People were stoned to death, hanged from bridges in public view, the bodies were left in public view for all to see for a couple of days. Freedom of speech unheard of (watch the (msnbc) news thats making a buzz since yesterday, on Pakistan’s ban of some 1500 words on internet, texting etc.). Man and woman interaction is viewed with suspicion and public flogging was the norm. Jealous men get rid of their wives with false accusations of adultery and see them off to the gallows. Unmarried girls are not supposed to be killed as virgins according to religion; a sepah pasdaar (religious police) first rapes them and only then the hanging takes place. Two different types of judiciary runs in parallel, one similar to what we all know. The other is a completely Islamized one, being superior of the two and functions with a stern finality headed by clerics. Clerics will have their own law enforcement agency with sepah and basij wings ensuring implementation of ‘purity’ in the society. Minorities (Zorashstrians, Bahaiis, Jews and Christians) live in fear; they are jailed or hanged on false charges of spying and drugs. All opponents of regime become drug pushers, spies and simply antiislamists. Same sex relationship and apostasy clearly means death.

I wouldn't use Iran as the best example of an Islamic republic. Honestly, I wouldn't use anything. No such thing as what would be considered the proper Islamic republic (though I don't agree with theocracies to begin with). As for the death sentence for homosexuality and apostasy, this is not found in the Qur'an.

Westerners are lured into this faith by disclosing halftruths and, women turn easier victims to this fatal attraction. The teaching inmosques is to attract a nonmuslim into relationship and convert her to Islam with a promise of marriage. The divorce is as easy as uttering the word divorce thrice, other than paying the agreed amount at the time of marriage, leaving not much room for any legal battle over the alimony or kids. Only a cleric can head family courts. Those nonmuslim women who want to marry a muslim must not undergo Islamic marriage for their own safety and must refuse to convert. Remember, the argument is always same: Oh, its just a formality, sign a paper to convert and then sign a contract of marriage, no big deal, all this only to please the family or else the marriage will be viewed as illegal. Women, ironically, always fall for this trap without any exception. Polygamy is religion sanctioned and mind you opposing it is seriously illegal. If wife opposes for a second wife go divorce her. The key is about honoring and paying the severance package agreed upon at the time of wedding, no litigation allowed. Most clerics themselves have multiple wives. They used to encourage us (hindus), ’just get circumcised and get a wife’. Getting a wife is easy. Father’s decision is final in matrimonial alliances; literally one can buy a wife, more money the merrier. Clerics refuse marrying a girl without father's permission regardless of age, on the other hand (young) age is no bar, any child bride can be given away. Girls who refuse marriage (on the day of marriage agreeing is required) will be threatened by parents and brothers, beaten and even branded as of ‘low character’. Terror is the key. Carnal desires of men are quite comfortablysatiated by the all accommodative faith. We are talking about a land where women are allowed to go to college and work. I cant imagine the fate in other lands where women aren’t even allowed these freedoms.

The teachings in mosques? I would really like to know what mosques you have been to. As my myself, I converted for no man. I did later get engaged, but he converted to Islam after I did. Divorce is practiced like that in Sunni Islam, as for Shi'a Islam, there must be witnesses when a divorce takes place and it's not as simple as that. As for polygamy, women can ask for a monogamy clause in her marriage contract. If he takes a second wife, it is easy for the woman to divorce. Polygamy is rarely practiced in the Western world. I have yet to come across it in the Muslim community here. At the mosques I go to, they always teach that we must obey the law of the land. Marriage against the will of the bride is absolutely haram in Islam. You do see this happen though, but let us remember that it happens in much of South Asia, regardless of religion. As for child marriages, again, Muslims should abide by the law of the land and that is what taught. Child marriages must be eradicated.

[devotee]

As my myself, I converted for no man. I did later get engaged, but he converted to Islam after I did.

You converted to Islam ? I thought you were born a Muslim. I feel compassion towards you. I am saying this because I have read Q'uran and I have lived with Muslims for sufficient time. They camouflage a lot of things when they try to convince you to convert but in practice, it is very-very different in their world. Imo, the good Muslims are good not because of Q'uran and Ahadith. They are good in spite of these.

OM