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Thread: slavery in Abrahamic religions

  1. #21
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    Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tikkun Olam View Post
    ... Is it not okay for America to have nuclear weapons to guard off attacks? Then why don't these basic rights of self-defense apply for Israel, too? ...
    Nuclear weapons are not one of the "basic rights of self-defense". They are an unfortunate part of modern life.
    The United States developed nuclear weapons because they thought Hitler was developing them.

    The United States has repeatedly vowed to defend Israel if it were attacked. Therefore Israel, like Japan -
    is already covered by the 'nuclear umbrella' of the United States. Israel's decision not to trust the United States
    and develop it's own nuclear arsenal is as destabilizing in the Middle East as a decision by Japan to do the same
    would be destabilizing in Asia.

    Iran, the arch-enemy of Israel, will likely not rest until they have the same "basic rights" as their hated foe.
    No good can come from the further proliferation of nuclear weapons.
    With our ears may we hear what is good.
    With our eyes may we behold thy righteousness.
    Tranquil in body, may we who worship thee find rest.

    AUM Peace Peace Peace

  2. #22

    Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    Quote Originally Posted by R Gitananda View Post
    Nuclear weapons are not one of the "basic rights of self-defense". They are an unfortunate part of modern life.
    The United States developed nuclear weapons because they thought Hitler was developing them.

    The United States has repeatedly vowed to defend Israel if it were attacked. Therefore Israel, like Japan -
    is already covered by the 'nuclear umbrella' of the United States. Israel's decision not to trust the United States
    and develop it's own nuclear arsenal is as destabilizing in the Middle East as a decision by Japan to do the same
    would be destabilizing in Asia.

    Iran, the arch-enemy of Israel, will likely not rest until they have the same "basic rights" as their hated foe.
    No good can come from the further proliferation of nuclear weapons.
    Building nuclear weapons is a military strategy. In economic terms, it is best if EVERYONE has them, because no one will use them. It may be an unfortunate fact that the technology exists, but game theory says building the bombs is defensive, not offensive.

    Do you know how many times nuclear bombs have been dropped in warfare? Twice. Just two bombs. Both by America on Japan, when they were but infants in terms of technology. They were immediately recognized as atrocities by the Americans. But America kept on building them, because the Soviet Union was building them, in a game theoretic ploy of "you can't use them on me, because I can use them on you". That's what we called the Cold War (much better than a hot war, for sure).

    The only way nuclear bombs can be dangerous in this day is if they're in the hands of irrational nations. Not impossible, but I hope that some (such as the Iranians) are not so irrational as to welcome their own destruction by wishing the end of another. I don't think there will ever be a nuclear-world-war... and America or Israel having nuclear weapons definitely doesn't scare me (nor should it scare anyone, bar Islamists-terrorists who wish to see the end of everyone not like them, including America, Israel and India, among many others).

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    Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    Namaste,

    Tikkun you would make a good Republican candidate, because your arguments are very similar. It is thinking like that which is destroying the planet. During the Cold War we almost launched nukes. We also were going to blow up a US civilian ship and blame it on the Cubans, luckily this was not signed and never happen. Imagine if we would have invaded Cuba (Viva Cuba! :P) and Russia and US would have gotten more intense. All that is needed is a mistake to occur and nukes are launched. The world is sick and we still cling to out dated dogma of war to justify our ways. At the same time I have to see that this is all manifestation of Pure Consciousness.

    Om Namah Sivaya

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    Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tikkun Olam View Post
    Why would the Hebrews take their own for slaves? No other nation I can think of has done this.
    No other nation has enslaved its own people? Are you sure about that?
    Didn't the Greeks and Romans practice slavery? What about the American Civil War?

  5. #25

    Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    Quote Originally Posted by TTCUSM View Post
    No other nation has enslaved its own people? Are you sure about that?
    Didn't the Greeks and Romans practice slavery? What about the American Civil War?
    The Greeks and Romans took slaves as the spoils of war, or from trading with other lands.

    In America, Africans were captured and shipped on boats to be slaves.

    In neither case were the oppressors taking their own people, they were taking someone else's. Slavery is usually racist; the master shows his dominance by enslaving an "weaker" race.

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    Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tikkun Olam View Post
    The Greeks and Romans took slaves as the spoils of war, or from trading with other lands.

    In America, Africans were captured and shipped on boats to be slaves.

    In neither case were the oppressors taking their own people, they were taking someone else's. Slavery is usually racist; the master shows his dominance by enslaving an "weaker" race.
    TO,

    You mentioned slavery in the US.
    Chapter 9 of Genesis states that all of mankind is descended from three sons of Noah-- Ham was the ancestor of African people, Shem was the ancestor of Semites, and Japheth was the ancestor of Europeans:

    20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

    21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

    22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

    23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

    24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

    25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

    26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

    27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

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    Talking Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    Namaste,

    I think they are treated as a commodity in Abrahamic religions. In Islam you can have a slave, but you must cloth them and feed them the way you wear and eat. This is nice, but the problem is they are still slaves. Muhammad even had a slave (not sure if many know this). Female slaves can be used for sex. You can trade them for money. They work under you. Ali ibn Abu Talib who is the 1st Imam of the Muslims had sex with a slave girl before the last hajj of Muhammad after a battle in which he obtain the booty of war. We all know the followers of Judaism also supported slavery and is justified in the bible. Jesus even uses metaphors by using terms from slavery. Such as the slave and the slave master are not the same. Its not surprising to see many of the Abrahamic followers are obsessed with capitalism.


    Om Namah Shivaya
    Prophet Muhammad freed over 30,000 slaves according to Sura i may add, he declared it to be one of the highest acts of holiness. And yes i consider Muhammad to be a prophet and yes i still read the Quran, although i put the Vedas above all others
    [CENTER] "Although the effulgence of the moon is brilliant initially at night, in the daytime it fades away. Similarly, although the lotus is beautiful during the daytime, at night it closes. But, O My friend, the face of My most dear Srimati Radharani is always bright and beautiful, both day and night. Therefore, to what can Her face be compared?" Vidagdha Madhava 5:20

  8. #28
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    Light Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    I personally have no issue with slavery i must say. What is yours is yours especially if you captured it. But a slave is to a master as a dog is to its owner, you must feed "it" bath "it" and care for "it". The fact we call domestic animals "it" is a natural form of slavery we have become common with yet we declare slavery as wrong. Slavery is as natural as eating is required, all nations are built from slavery and you cannot change it. I am quite the naturalist and a slave is property although i wouldnt say commodity although from my understanding the Bible does treat slaves as commodity sadly.
    [CENTER] "Although the effulgence of the moon is brilliant initially at night, in the daytime it fades away. Similarly, although the lotus is beautiful during the daytime, at night it closes. But, O My friend, the face of My most dear Srimati Radharani is always bright and beautiful, both day and night. Therefore, to what can Her face be compared?" Vidagdha Madhava 5:20

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    Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    Quote Originally Posted by cuddledkitty View Post
    I personally have no issue with slavery i must say. What is yours is yours especially if you captured it. But a slave is to a master as a dog is to its owner, you must feed "it" bath "it" and care for "it". The fact we call domestic animals "it" is a natural form of slavery we have become common with yet we declare slavery as wrong. Slavery is as natural as eating is required, all nations are built from slavery and you cannot change it. I am quite the naturalist and a slave is property although i wouldnt say commodity although from my understanding the Bible does treat slaves as commodity sadly.
    Hello cuddledkitty:

    Sorry. But this is wrong at so many levels. For one, to say that slavery is "natural" and being OK with it, would be committing the naturalistic fallacy.

    Comparison of slavery to owning pets is a sad example of committing a category error. Being a theist, a stronger case can be made that homo sapiens are in some sense "special" and hence one cannot make a comparison of treatment of humans and treatment of animals, especially pets!

    Thirdly, in many places in the world, it is ILLEGAL to engage in slave trade. If ancient Hindus/Muslims/Christians engaged in slavery because it was not made illegal, then a nice counter-question to these folks would be to ask them whether they believe their holy books provide any basis of objective morality or not.

  10. #30
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    Re: slavery in Abrahamic religions

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    Hello cuddledkitty:

    Sorry. But this is wrong at so many levels. For one, to say that slavery is "natural" and being OK with it, would be committing the naturalistic fallacy.

    Comparison of slavery to owning pets is a sad example of committing a category error. Being a theist, a stronger case can be made that homo sapiens are in some sense "special" and hence one cannot make a comparison of treatment of humans and treatment of animals, especially pets!

    Thirdly, in many places in the world, it is ILLEGAL to engage in slave trade. If ancient Hindus/Muslims/Christians engaged in slavery because it was not made illegal, then a nice counter-question to these folks would be to ask them whether they believe their holy books provide any basis of objective morality or not.
    Ants enslave ants, Lions by definition enslave lioness into submission by killing their children, so yes it happens in nature but im only offering a dual perspective.
    The religious aspects vary of course but the Bible and Qur'an do not ban it. I am not being bias here stating "Naturalism" or Natural Order as my supreme reasoning. But i simply just do not find an issue with slavery. My mother was a slave and she was Indonesian and was a child soldier in Saudi Arabia years ago and i am not bias towards the philosophy that supports slavery.
    [CENTER] "Although the effulgence of the moon is brilliant initially at night, in the daytime it fades away. Similarly, although the lotus is beautiful during the daytime, at night it closes. But, O My friend, the face of My most dear Srimati Radharani is always bright and beautiful, both day and night. Therefore, to what can Her face be compared?" Vidagdha Madhava 5:20

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