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Thread: Soul vs Self

  1. #1

    Soul vs Self

    Message to mods: please accept this post, this topic is bugging me and I can't rest till I understand the issue.

    Alot of people teaches that we have soul which is a spirit, also in books the word "Atman" has been translated as "soul". In the Jehovah witness book "mankind search for god" they picked up on how the Gita uses the term soul and they used that to make themselves look better then the Hindu scriptures. (they did it to all religions in that book)

    So my question is: why have atman been mistranslated from "Self" to "soul"?

    Soul = human being
    Atman = self/consciousness

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    Re: Soul vs Self

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight View Post
    Message to mods: please accept this post, this topic is bugging me and I can't rest till I understand the issue.

    Alot of people teaches that we have soul which is a spirit, also in books the word "Atman" has been translated as "soul". In the Jehovah witness book "mankind search for god" they picked up on how the Gita uses the term soul and they used that to make themselves look better then the Hindu scriptures. (they did it to all religions in that book)

    So my question is: why have atman been mistranslated from "Self" to "soul"?

    Soul = human being
    Atman = self/consciousness
    Vannakkam Moonlight: The definitions and perceptions will vary, depending on sect. I'll give you my version. The soul is the soul body, a body of light that reincarnates, building a new physical body around itself each time. The essence or core of the soul body is the Self, that which is identical in nature with God.

    This is how my sampradaya makes a distinction. Not all will agree, and some will use the word's interchangeably, yes.

    Welcome to the forum, BTW.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Soul vs Self

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    More on ātman can be found on this HDF post:
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=8270

    praām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Soul vs Self

    Namaste Moonlight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight View Post
    So my question is: why have atman been mistranslated from "Self" to "soul"?

    Soul = human being
    Atman = self/consciousness
    I think the word soul is used as a catch-all, umbrella term familiar to westerners. It does indeed refer to the immortal spirit, but it's not entirely accurate to equate with ātman or jiva alone, which have subtle differences in themselves. Use of the word "soul", imo, is a merging of "ātman" and "jīva". I hope this doesn't confuse you more.

    Wikipedia has this to say:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman_(...#Miscellaneous
    Often atman is mistaken as being interchangeable with the word jiva with the difference being somewhat subtle. Whereas atman refers to the self, jiva refers to the living being, the exact comprehension of which varies throughout the philosophical schools.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiva
    In Hinduism and Jainism, a jiva (Sanskrit: जीव, jīva alternate spelling, jiwa) is a living being,[1] or more specifically, the immortal essence of a living organism (human, animal, fish or plant etc.) which survives physical death.[2][3] It has a very similar usage to atma, but whereas atma refers to "the cosmic self", jiva is used to denote an individual 'living entity' or 'living being' specifically.[4]
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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    Re: Soul vs Self

    namaste Moonlight and others.

    Whatever way the words 'soul, spirit, self and consciousness' are used in English today, they had these meanings originally:

    • soul: spiritual and emotional part of a person, animate existence; the seat of the animating principle.

    • spirit: animating or vital principle in man and animals.

    • self: one's own person, same.
    [Trying to define yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth. [Alan Watts]]

    • consciousness: internal knowledge.

    (Ref: http://www.etymonline.com/)

    In an electric bulb, electricity passes through the wire in the filament. So, if we call electricity the spirit, as the animating principle, we would then call the filament soul and the bulb (individual) self. What about the light-switch here? We might perhaps call it the state of consciousness (on/off) of the individual bulb.

    Unlike the western religions, Hinduism associates consciousness--prajna, with Brahman aka Atman or Self, which is the animating principle. Indidualizations of this universal Self with the limitations of physical and subtle bodies give rise to individual souls--jIvas and places their consciousness in one of three states: wakefulness, dreamy sleep and deep sleep.

    In the case of the electric bulb, the animating principle is just a form of physical energy which has no consciousness of its own. Whereas with the individual soul, the animating principle is a single entity (Brahman) whose nature is consciousness, so the individual souls are enabled to know and experience their source and ultimately merge with it.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: Soul vs Self

    Etymonline is a great resource.

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