vaishnab culture

[uttam]

I have the opinion that the vaishnab dharma practised by iskon and other gaudya math is not on the line what mahapravu wishes. I see every person in this forum quote from the writings of Bhakti vinod thakur and his son Bhakti sidhanta saraswati and their followers like A C pravupada. I mean to say that there is vaishnab culture/vaishnab dharma out side these pravupadas.I know they are critical of other vaishnabs.Bhakti vinod thakur , Bhakti sidhanta saraswati and their followers like A C pravupada are rich and organised.I request members of this forum to gather some idea of the vaishnab out side Bhakti vinod thakur, Bhakti sidhanta saraswati and their followers like A C pravupada.we should know that mahaprabhu was not born in Mayapur. Mayapur is made birth place of mahaprabhu by Bhakti vinod thakur and his son Bhakti sidhanta saraswati forcefully with the help of money and muscle.

[Kismet]

Mayapur is made birth place of mahaprabhu by Bhakti vinod thakur and his son Bhakti sidhanta saraswati forcefully with the help of money and muscle.

News to me!

I'm all ears.

[saidevo]

namaste.

Some links to know about other vaiShNava traditions:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8843101/Srivaishnavam-FAQ
http://www.archive.org/details/early...ofva00aiyauoft
http://srimatham.com/srimatham/teach...pancaratra.pdf
http://www.archive.org/download/vais...00rajarich.pdf

[uttam]

saidevoji pranam. thanks for the links. but by " vaishnab out side Bhakti vinod thakur, Bhakti sidhanta saraswati and their followers like A C pravupada" I do not mean Ramanuj sampradaya,Madva sampradaya,kathiababa sampradaya etc. I would like to clear that in Navadwip it self there are number of vaishnab who follow mahapravu in a different way from so called gaudiya that is Bhakti vinod thakur, Bhakti sidhanta saraswati and their followers like A C pravupada .
you see what mahaprabhu taught through his lila as we find in chaitanya charitamrita and what these prabhupadas taught is just opposit of each other ,in near future we will see AC bhakti vedanta replaces mahaprabhu in iskon temple and respective prabhupadas in their respective gaudiya maths.Their very intention hurt me when i find how Mianpur become Mayapur and then birth place of mahaprabhu.Just think if they truely love mahaprabhu then how can they establish a false place as birth place of mahaprabhu. I have a collection which has been published with the financial assistance received from Deptt of culture,Govt of India in which the full details is given how Mayapur become Mahaprabhu's birth place
1. in 1894,Kedarnath Dutta retires from the then Govt service and became known as srila bhakti vinod thakur.
2. in the same year Kedarnath Dutta establish " sri nabadipdham pracharini sabha" and starts spreading Mianpur coastal area as Mayapur.
3.in 1914,Kedarnath Dutta passes away and his son Vimala prasad Dutta -sadhan name srila Bhakti sidhant saraswati,completes father's unfinished task.
In any of the biographies of chaitanya mahaprabhu, there is no word like 'Mayapur'. I do not think these prabhupadas are honest in their business.

[anadi]

I see every person in this forum quote from the writings of Bhakti vinod thakurand his son Bhakti sidhanta saraswati and their followers like A C pravupada. Imean to say that there is vaishnab culture/vaishnab dharma out side these pravupadas.Iknow they are critical of other vaishnabs .Bhakti vinod thakur , Bhakti sidhantasaraswati and their followers like A C pravupada are rich and organised.

Bhakti Vinoda Thakur was not critical to the (traditional) Vaishnavas of Gaudiya Sampradaya as his son Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswasti and his followers (Iskcon andGaudiya Math branches) were, as the latest didn't (don't) follow the tradition anymore.

BhaktiVinoda Thakur was a traditional Gaudiya Vaishnav who took initiation from Bipin Bihari Goswami. You can read more under:

http://www.gaudiya.com/pdf/Bhaktivinoda_Thakur_and_Bipin_Bihari_Goswami.pdf

Which organisation did Bhakti Vinod Thakur belong to?

[anadi]

we should know that mahaprabhu was not born in Mayapur.

Sri Caitanya was born in Mayapur. It seems that at the time of Sri Caitanya, Mayapur was on the other side of the nowadays Ganges. The follower of the traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism consider the place of Birth of Gaura (Sri Caitanya) as being not in the nowadays Mayapur but on the other side of the Ganges, in the Old Mayapur (Prachin Mayapur).

[uttam]

Anadiji ,the prominent chaitanya writers like murari gupta,kabi karnopur,brindaban das,lochandas,jayananda,krishnadas kabiraj does never mention any word like mayapur in relation to chaitanya mahapravu. Bhakti Vinod thakur I mean kedarnath dutta was administrator of the area and using his administrative power he managed to incorporate in the revenue records mayapur by replacing mianpur which was muslim dominated area. amongst the vaishnab writers It was Narhari chakraborty who for the first time described mayapur as sri gauranga's birth place.before this there was no such word like mayapur in relation to chaitanya.Narhari chakraborty created this confusion when he was describing nabadipmandal at the instance of mathuramandal.It is a imaginary place coined by narhari chakraborty and kedarnath dutta took the opportunity to establish himself by incorporating it in revenue record through fraudulent way.you just imagine why there was no dispute for mahaprabhu's birth place among vaishnab writers of the period before this kedarnath dutta alias bhakti vinod thakur .how ambitious these people are ! bhakti vinode thakur betrayed his guru bipin goswami then AC bhakti vedanta betrayed his guru bhakti sidhanta saraswati and establishes iskon for himself and there is a history of betrayal in the kingdom of gaudiya math/mission established by bhakri sidhanta saraswati .now the question is why these pravupradas separates them selves from their gurus and establish own kingdom. is this the sign of true vaishnab as described by mahaprabhu.actually these people wants money power and what not to enjoy in the name of sri krishna and mahaprabhu. I condemn them for their misdeeds in the name of vaishnab dharma. bhakti vinod thakur is the first in the clan so he started organising people under his umbrella by doing some small organisation,samity etc but the present shape of the organisation started by his son sidhanta saraswati

[sm78]

Dear Uttam, why don't you provide a skech of traditional gaudiya vaishnavism outside gaudiya matha to help those interested about these bhakti movement. You can also perhaves draw attention to external weblinks which deal with the matter, but I believe - internet is dominated only by prabhupada versions, and other traditional followers don't have much internet space. You can perhaves also suggest books which deal gaudiya vaishnava history. I don't have interest in vaishnava dharma and philosophy, but an authentic scholarly historical narrative of this powerful movement since 14th century and its effect on hindu culture in east and north-east would be most interesting for me too. Culture is always an interesting subject.

[uttam]

yes sm78 you are 100% correct .traditional followers of chaitanya mahaprabhu are not interested in preaching their version through internet.actually they are very much simple in their life style not even interested in people getting interacted with them . they want to remain in their state of affairs that is enjoying 'madhurya ras'.what you want me to do will take some time because most of the materials are in bengali language which is to be translated and you know translation is not a easy job at all.therefore i am in search of a good English translation . regarding chaitanya's birth place i have some English publications definitely i will try to suggest them in my coming threads.

[sm78]

You can refer me names of bengali publications (since I am bengali ) and I will collect some of them when I am in Kolkata next time (which will be in a few weeks). I am also more interested in bengali works that english and I don't believe in this subject much work has been done through english language. From what I have heard from you the vaishnavism you are talking about is very different, but not surprising at all, given the historical and regional context. Bengal has never been a place of ritualistic excesses, vegetarian crusade or religious rules. Though I am not a vaishnava one cannot ever deny the reality of hladini shakti and rasa in krishna prema, and vaishnavism is the window to this power. But it only work for me when the religiosity (which you refer is vidhi dharma) is taken out.