Namaste brahman,
Quite extraordinary, thank you so much for posting.
praNAma
mana
Maybe apropos nothing, satellite images show what is probably the course of the ancient Saraswati River. Interesting to note the article mentions the Persians living in the region of the Harovaiti river. Considering the known and regular sound shift from Sanskrit s to Persian h, the Haro[h]vaiti could very easily be the Saras[v]ati.
Some theories I read suggest that the IVC was abandoned not because of any "invasion", but due to climate change which caused a drier climate, forcing the people of the IVC to move eastwards towards the Ganges.
For my money the IVC had to be proto-Indic and the language proto-Sanskrit, with the people arriving about 50,000 years BCE. I think the origins of the IVC and Indoeuropean languages including Sanskrit are far, far older than linguists and archaeologists believe.
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
TBTL,
The Vedas mention a conflict between Aryans (followers of the Vedic religion) and Dasas (enemies of the Aryans). Traditionally, it was believed that the Dasas were Dravidians who built the IVC and now inhabit South India.
However, there are no Dravidian tribes that refer to themselves as "Dasas". Instead, the term "Daha" refers to a Persian tribe. The conflict in the Vedas most likely describes the migration of Persians out of India rather than a migration of Aryans into India.
तद्विद्धि प्रणिपातेन परिप्रश्नेन सेवया ।
उपदेक्ष्यन्ति ते ज्ञानं ज्ञानिनस्तत्वदर्शिनः ॥
उस ज्ञान को तू तत्वदर्शी ज्ञानियों के पास जाकर समझ, उनको भलीभाँति दण्डवत्* प्रणाम करने से, उनकी सेवा करने से और कपट छोड़कर सरलतापूर्वक प्रश्न करने से वे परमात्म तत्व को भलीभाँति जानने वाले ज्ञानी महात्मा तुझे उस तत्वज्ञान का उपदेश करेंगे. श्रीमद्*भगवद्*गीता-4.34
If that's true, is it at all possible that the Latvian (and other Eastern and Central European People) originated from the Indus Valley Civilization?The conflict in the Vedas most likely describes the migration of Persians out of India rather than a migration of Aryans into India.
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast
I looked at the site offered and frankly I thought I was looking at 1,000 sticks thrown to the ground and it was up to me to build a story from it.
I am sure there must be something I am missing.
iti śivaṁ
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
I have never heard that vedas have indicated the aryan and dravidians. These are invention of Max Muller under the influence of Christian Missionaries.
If you go by DNA trail (Scientific American) then the southern India had been populated around 120000 years back. The group gradually moved from south to north - swaraswati rivers to north west and east. There was another branch from africka from the middle east side around 40000 years ago.
That is why Gulf of Cambay discovery (done by NIOT in 2001-2) is dated at 13000+ BC. These cities are submerged in sea at 40 mtrs depth and have similar features as Harappa / Mohenjodero.
The base hinduism was most probably started in south and evolved to its best by the time it migrated to north.
Again if you see Tamil script, it is an incomplete script. Whereas all other Indian languages have 40 consonents, old tamil had 16-18 consonents. As the people moved from south to north, the script also evolved with more consonents and by the time sanskrit was evolved, it was a full blown language. Latter Tamil took some consonents from Sanskrit.
If Aryans were from any other parts of the world, it would have mentaions in the scriptures and also we would ahve seen the Mother group (with all the similar knowledges) somewhere in central asia. These theories were proposed anly to keep the supremacy of Christianity intact.
It would be better to explore more, analyse more with common sense.
Love and best wishes:hug:
Wasn't there a discussion on the dark skinned enemies of the Aryas sometime ago? Dark skinned has been interpreted in various ways (people, demons, metaphors, etc). Do you have some evidence to show that Max Mueller invented them?
Can you please post some evidence for the 13000 BC date? No part of IVC has been dated to such an early time.That is why Gulf of Cambay discovery (done by NIOT in 2001-2) is dated at 13000+ BC. These cities are submerged in sea at 40 mtrs depth and have similar features as Harappa / Mohenjodero.
This assumes sanskrit evolved out of tamil. Any evidence to support that?Again if you see Tamil script, it is an incomplete script. Whereas all other Indian languages have 40 consonents, old tamil had 16-18 consonents. As the people moved from south to north, the script also evolved with more consonents and by the time sanskrit was evolved, it was a full blown language. Latter Tamil took some consonents from Sanskrit.
I do not think anyone claims Aryans are from a different part of the world. Rather, they share common origins with ancient Greeks and ancient Persians owing to strikingly similar languages, etc. And due to this common background the Eurasian Steppe (which is a large area) was considered the likely origin. A conspiracy theory would have had this place of origin as Berlin or London or the Vatican, I would think.If Aryans were from any other parts of the world, it would have mentaions in the scriptures and also we would ahve seen the Mother group (with all the similar knowledges) somewhere in central asia.
This is without basis. When was the supremacy of Christianity under threat by Indians? How does claiming a Eurasian origin for Aryans work in favor of Christianity which originated somewhere else? Next thing you know, a set of patriotic Indians will create a conspiracy theory around "Out of Africa" and claim the first humans originated in India and then moved to Africa!These theories were proposed anly to keep the supremacy of Christianity intact.
Which (unfortunately) does not appear to be the case with most people on Hindu discussion forums. Rather than approach the topic without bias and consider a variety of sources, they prefer to rely on propoganda based internet artices - all with the predetermined mindset that India must be the origin of everything and anyone who differs is part of a grand conspiracy.It would be better to explore more, analyse more with common sense.
It is interesting that Al Beruni noticed a similar attitude when he visited India a 1000 years ago. Here is the relevant portion, though it will invite the wrath of many -
The Hindus believe, there is no country but theirs, no religion like theirs and no science like theirs. They are by nature niggardly in communicating their knowledge and they take the greatest possible care to withhold it from men of another caste among their own people and much more, from foreigners. If you tell them about scholars in Khurasan or Persia, they will think you are an ignoramus and a liar. if they traveled and mingled with people of other nations, they would quickly change their minds as their ancestors were not as narrow-minded (quotes Varaha-Mihira here as example where he acknowledged Greek contribution to Indian astronomy).
When I showed them some of the elements on which science rests, pointing out logical deduction and scientific methods, they flocked eagerly around me, asking me which Hindu master I had learnt this from!
A bigger extract is here -
http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/
http://lokayata.info
http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/
But you please continue your "neutral research" basing yourself on how Madhvacharya considered the entire Valmiki Ramayana as a fake as in: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...t=11155&page=8
and that the Vedas [with the absolute condition that itihAsAs and PurAnAs never be referred for God's knows why] has no significance whatsoever in lives of majority of Hindus as in: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=11154
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