Ramayana- A Real historic narration?

[kaushik]

Hi all,
Ramayana as we all know, stands tall through ages as one of the greatest epics in Indian history. It is very important that the immense values & insights that Ramayana has garnered to its readers are passed on to genrations to come as well. At this juncture, it would be good to clarify on the origin of Ramayana, that of Valmiki's composition.
Was it a real string of incidents passed on to us through Valimiki?? or was it from some divine vision that kindled him?

Please do share your valuable thoughts on the same.THanks in Advance!!

[Sudarshan]

Ramayana is an itihAsic presentation of jnAna yoga - seven chapters allegorically narrating the seven bhUmika-s of jnAna yoga ( vide varAha upanishad), namely, shubeccha, vichAraNa, tanumAnasi, sattvapatti, asaMsakti, padArta bhAvana and turya. vAlmiki is the theory of jnAna yoga itself and Ramayana is his own autobiography on Self Realization. The characters you find in Ramayana are one's encountered by vAlmiki during his yogic progress.

[kallol]

Looking at the narration and comparing with reality, it seems it is history. May be puched with some imaginations.

[dhyandev]

http://sarojbala.blogspot.in/2012/06...mayan-era.html

[JayaRadhe]

Namaste!
I believe most of it to be historically accurate with some allegorical figures. That is, I believe Sita-Ram, Hanuman, Lakshman, Ravana, etc... all existed and that the events went down similar to what is recounted. However, I think that such things as Ravana having ten heads and ten arms are allegorical. Then ten heads representing amassed knowledge and the ten arms representing his prowess in battle. However, that is just my own opinion based on my reading of the scripture.

[philosoraptor]

Yes, Ramayana is a real historic narration. Or at least, that is the viewpoint of the traditionalist, not always so popular with modern crowds. There is plenty in the Ramayana which defies our myopic conception of reality: unchaste women being turned to stone and then redeemed by divine grace, flying & shape-changing monkeys, giant demons whose very presence corrupts the land in which they live, mystic weapons which can release destructive effects rivaling those of modern weapons of mass destruction, talking vultures, a Sanskrit-speaking bear with a life-span of several-million years, and yes, lest we not forget, a ten-headed demon.

There is nothing in the Ramayana to suggest that the author had intended any of this to be allegorical only. The opening chapters indicate that the author visualized the entire sequence of events, which had occurred in the recent past as he was a contemporary of Rama Himself. He gave shelter to Sita and was present when she gave birth to Rama's twin sons, even instructing them in the Vedas.

Ours is not a dry religion. There are plenty of supernatural events to challenge the mind and the heart. If you believe in the existence of an omnipotent Deity, it's not hard to accept that such things could have occurred, since a truly all-powerful Deity could bend the laws of reality to suit His needs. And why shouldn't He? Instead of an enemy tribal chieftain, He chose a ten-headed villain who was so powerful he caused the devas to cower. Instead of a ho-hum army of conscripts fighting for His cause, He chose an army of talking, flying, shape-changing monkeys!

God has the ultimate sense of style.

[JayaRadhe]

Yes, Ramayana is a real historic narration. Or at least, that is the viewpoint of the traditionalist, not always so popular with modern crowds. There is plenty in the Ramayana which defies our myopic conception of reality: unchaste women being turned to stone and then redeemed by divine grace, flying & shape-changing monkeys, giant demons whose very presence corrupts the land in which they live, mystic weapons which can release destructive effects rivaling those of modern weapons of mass destruction, talking vultures, a Sanskrit-speaking bear with a life-span of several-million years, and yes, lest we not forget, a ten-headed demon.

There is nothing in the Ramayana to suggest that the author had intended any of this to be allegorical only. The opening chapters indicate that the author visualized the entire sequence of events, which had occurred in the recent past as he was a contemporary of Rama Himself. He gave shelter to Sita and was present when she gave birth to Rama's twin sons, even instructing them in the Vedas.

Ours is not a dry religion. There are plenty of supernatural events to challenge the mind and the heart. If you believe in the existence of an omnipotent Deity, it's not hard to accept that such things could have occurred, since a truly all-powerful Deity could bend the laws of reality to suit His needs. And why shouldn't He? Instead of an enemy tribal chieftain, He chose a ten-headed villain who was so powerful he caused the devas to cower. Instead of a ho-hum army of conscripts fighting for His cause, He chose an army of talking, flying, shape-changing monkeys!

God has the ultimate sense of style.

I don't discount the miracles in the Ramayana (Ahalya returning to her natural form, Hanuman taking on non-human proportions, Rama breaking Shiva's bow...), I merely question whether such things as Ravan having 10 heads cannot be explained metaphorically. Tell me, when Krishnaji marries Jambavati in the Bhagavatam, do you think he actually married a bear, or do you think she might be referred to as such for some other reason (such as it being the name of her clan)? I choose to think it was symbolic.

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

>>>> "Why 14 Years?" <<<<

I know I am taking a break right now, but when checking a thread in respect of a Member who sent a message I received, I saw this item and I just cannot resist to add an idea. So forgive me for again not living up to the standards of Lord Rama and King Dasarath in keeping a “oath”. I am not a Brahmana so I tend to be here and there if you will.

Rama would have dharshan with Kala Purusha. It is said, Kala Purusha at the notification of Brahma took the form of a Rishi and asked Lord Rama to come to a private place to have a discussion in a tent or room, and that no one should disturb this discussion which was to request Rama to end His Avatar. This is part of His duty as I am told that Kala Purusha keeps track of the “clock” or time measurement. This discussion took place after the 14 year exile. The Rishi can be the Personification of Time from the human view. All things are eaten by Kala. Of course Time is Shiva the Great God, so what is inferred here is that Kala Purusha Deva is not in CHARGE of Time which is by Shiva, but He tracks the “universal clock” if you will which pertains to Karma. And the “clock” said, the time is due, the time has been measured.

This is a point that seems to connect with me, because when Rama was having this dharshan, the Muni Durvasa forced His way into the room even though Rama commanded to Lakshman that during this Dharshan no one is to enter at the consequence of banishment or death, of which the “door” was being guarded by Brother Lakshman. Muni Durvasa is considered an Aspect of Shankara. So in one way, we can see that Time Itself can force its way in no matter what the “clock” says.

Also it is important to remember that Rama is the Great Devotee (Bhakta) of Shiva – some may argue with me regarding this and I have not fully realized all Aspects of the “Trinity”, but this is firmly explained to me and I submit to it. This is my religious understanding in so regarding.
This clock affects in particular the humans, but also all beings including those with merit and animals with merit such as the cow.
Ram took to the 14 years to save his Father’s honor. This is the larger reason, it was in the name of honor, and Honor is not limited by time. And Ram is the Perfect Man. Lord Rama indeed did (and does) feel and understand man, and pain. He is always 100% Deva, but He is simultaneously 1 part Deva and 1 part Man in that Dasaratha gave half the divine nectar or honey (pAyasam) to Kausalya who gave us Lord Ramachandra. So this is not a contradiction to be half man and half Deva and also 100% Deva. This is my religion, in so regarding, you may disagree but my mind will not be changed.

Rama can be part of the human experience. For example, after Sita went into the Earth due to the nit-picking and back-stabbing of some who lived in The Kingdom, foolish humans such as we see to this very day in society but which even existing in a Kingdom which was a Paradise, these gossipers could not stop claiming She was not pure because She was with Ravana and thus was in violation of “rules”. Later Rama jumped into the River Sharayu where He showed us one way to take Samadhi but not take life. In this same manner, Trailinga Swami left by taking Samadhi in the Ganga at Kashi by sinking into the Ganga jal. This can be a perfectly accepted method for Yogis, Mystics, and Avatars, and even in some cases Bhaktas.

I do not know for a fact the answer to the question, why 14? - but I think I can volunteer a guess though I fully admit this is dubious perhaps.
Though the premise being that fourteen is enough years to allow Bharat to become fixed in the minds of the people as their only King, fourteen is an interesting number - it is my understanding that there are 14 “worlds” or dimensions in the universe. 7 are where humans are allowed to practice yoga and the Path and Bhakti and even Arhantship or Moksha, and 7 are where unrighteous can go if they are full of negative energy that causes obstacles to such humans and other living-soul-based beings who want to practice the Path which includes Bhakti Yoga. While this is not hell, it is not a nice place to be, and I would not want to go there. The lower one goes into the 7 lower dimensions, the higher is the ego. The higher one goes into the 7 higher dimensions, the less ego. Heaven in Swarga Loka is not the final dimension, there are four more above it.

So some may say perhaps the 14 years can represent the 14 dimensions which we may all find ourselves in one day or another day passing while on the Journey. I will also mention without authority, there are 2 letters in the Name of Rama, there are 2 letters in the Name of Sita, 3 letters in the Name Lakshman, 3 letters in the Name Bharat and 4 letters in the Name Shatrughna. All are the Honor of His Father including Lord Ramachandra’s beloved Wife. They add up to 14. Queen Kaikeyi requested the banishment of 14 years. Perhaps without realizing it, it was symbolically a strike on the Honor of the King, which all fours Sons and Sita composite the Universe of the King. So even her plans were a dishonor to Bharat as well because all of them together represent this “Universe” of the King.

Some say the shoe or sandal is dirty and there are so many rules they can quote in this regard. But Bharat established the wooden shoes of Ram on the throne. What is dirty to one is Sacred to another, for it is the question of Who stood in those sandals and not the dirt on them. Mother Ganga is never dirty no matter how much it is polluted. Rama can go to all 14 dimensions if He so chooses and He is not dirty. Rama can lift up any child in the universe, and He is never dirty and the child is blessed. It is only disrespect to Honor that can put oil in the milk.

Rama is the Perfect Man, for all, no matter who your ancestors are. If you Honor Lord Ram, you will then have a way to Honor all of your ancestors who also get benefit. All of Humanity is in Ram, that is my religion.

I believe that the Ramayana is an Historical Account. Meaning all of it is true. The events each show us a deep mystery or mystic truth as well. It is these truths that we can realize which are the Buddhi behind these very real events.

To me, my Lord Hanuman is the First Messenger. For He brought first word to Mother Sita who was held in the Garden, that Rama is coming.

Rama is coming. Even today, Hanuman can be the First Messenger to you.

[JayaRadhe]

I believe that the Ramayana is an Historical Account. Meaning all of it is true. The events each show us a deep mystery or mystic truth as well.

Hari Aum Tat Sat! May we all take a lesson from ShivaFan, a real saint among sinners.

[philosoraptor]

I don't discount the miracles in the Ramayana (Ahalya returning to her natural form, Hanuman taking on non-human proportions, Rama breaking Shiva's bow...), I merely question whether such things as Ravan having 10 heads cannot be explained metaphorically. Tell me, when Krishnaji marries Jambavati in the Bhagavatam, do you think he actually married a bear, or do you think she might be referred to as such for some other reason (such as it being the name of her clan)? I choose to think it was symbolic.

Pranams,

Although Jambavan is a bear, Jambavati was never described in the bhAgavatam as a bear, so the question does not arise.

Raavana having 10 heads cannot be explained metaphorically because context does not support it. Vaalmiiki explicitly states that he revealed a ten-faced, twenty-armed form to Sita just prior to abducting her:

sa.nrakta nayanaH shriimaan tapta kaa.ncana bhuuSaNaH |
krodhena mahataa aaviSTo niila jiimuuta sannibhaH || 3-49-7
dasha aasyo vi.mshati bhujo babhuuva kSaNadaa caraH |

That celebrated Ravana whose eyes are bloodshot as he is ensorcelled by desperate fury transmuted his form into a ten-faced, twenty-armed night-walker wearing golden ornaments of purified gold and appearing as a black tempestuous cloud. [3-49-7, 8a]

There is also the fact that Raavana is traditionally understood to have literally 10 heads and this can been seen in art forms spanning centuries. Some are of the opinion that he only manifests all 10 heads at certain times such as in battle. But the point is, it is not traditionally understand as merely metaphor without literal basis.