Does God Punish?

[NayaSurya]

I am Muslim.Can i say something about Islamic view here?
Or where is the side to talk with the other religion?

Goodness

Beloved Akram, your very first post here and you choose not to say hello...not to introduce yourself. But, immediately ask to post about a muslim view?

So you will have to excuse members for being a bit shy to respond, or respond the way they do.


This thread was created in the God in Hindu Dharma section of the forum. Which means this question is seeking a Hindu opinion about God of Hindu Dharma.

For the section where this forum discusses Islam-

Please see here-

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

[Mana]

I am Muslim.Can i say something about Islamic view here?
Or where is the side to talk with the other religion?

Namaste Akram Fakir,

It is customary here to make a short introduction over in the introductions folder on joining the forum; welcome to HDF.

Here

Your choice of thread for an introduction, was well .... lets put it down to karma; (which translates as love and cause of action, amongst other things). These topics can get quite fiery, quite apt for the thread but still best tread lightly here, freedom of speech does still apply on the internet (just).

Your opinion and thoughts are of course welcome, but bear in mind that this is a Hindu forum, there is an Abrahamic Folder here under which you will find Islam as a sub heading along with Christianity and Judaism ...

Many here are very open minded, it is a goal of sanAtana dharma to open ones heart and ones mind. Wit that said I should pay attention to ones choice of words as at times simply the misinterpretation of language between sects can start all kinds of nonsense.

Feel free to browse, and make your self at home. I hope that you learn positive things about your life's path here.


praNAma

mana

[Believer]

Namaste,

If I understand the forum rules correctly, there is a section for Abrahamic Religions for people belonging to those faiths to express their views. What is more; even there, the discussion has 1. to pertain to Abrahamic religions affecting Hinduism, and 2)not be derogatory to Hinduism. If my interpretation is wrong, I am sure I will be corrected by the moderators.

It is not improper to control the discussions and have them Hindu oriented, since this is a Hindu Forum. And this is not out of malice to anyone, but the Hindu forum should be about Hinduism and not about a hodgepodge of Universalitic view points. There is already enough of that out there on the Internet to fill people's curiosity.

Now getting back to the OP's question.........

Pranam.

[Adhvagat]

God does punish. Specially people who ask wheter he does it or not, just to make his point accross.

[Aum namah Śivāya]

नमस्ते

I do not believe that God punishes. That's what karma is for. I believe that karma is more or less impartial, unbiased, scientific. It will come back sooner or later. It's not punishment, it's just the way things work.

But I do believe that for the sincere, those who want to overcome their karma, or make it easier to get through it, God will help with that. God is there when we approach sincerely. God does not abandon us in the time of need.

ॐ नमः शिवाय

[ZarryT]

Whenever there's a yes / no question in this context the answer is always "yes AND no, both and neither".

For god, if you mean Brahman, to punish anyone or anything is the same as punishing itself.


Before rebirth, every life must come to terms with itself to the highest degree that it can. This may entail suffering, this suffering is not necessarily equivalent with a punishment, since it is self-inflicted: it is how you respond to the truths about yourself, both light and dark.

[ZarryT]

It depends on what attributes you would like God to have. Does God know the future with 100% accuracy? Did God know even before Hitler was born that 6 million Jews would be slaughtered? If God knew that, did Hitler really have the choice of not slaughtering 6 million Jews?

Now, things become more interesting to discuss if you believe God cannot have knowledge of the future. In that case, God cannot be accused of any misfortune that befalls us. It is pure unadulterated free will. In this case, [where God does not know the future with 100% accuracy], I am currently inclined to believe that God compensated the innocent Jews in some fashion. That is, if you are an innocent victim of a crime, it leads to better compensatory Karma. If you are a deserving victim of a crime, your Karmic load decreases appropriately as you have "paid" for past moral actions.

God simultaneously does and does not know the future. But for God, time is a very different thing.
Consider that all things are from the will of God. The universe is maintained by God persisting in creating it. Every moment is generated directly from God; in a sense there is no past or future.

So it's not that God sees the future laid out like a timeline of events, but rather that the future is whatever God wants it to be, so there's nothing regarding the future for God to think about. God immediately knows what it wants and makes it happen in each subsequent moment; it never has to consider the future. Change is merely change in god's will.

If your fundamental self is equivalent with Brahman, then your own life is essentially based in that same immediate-representation-of-will. So on the one hand Hitler couldn't have done otherwise than he did, but on the other hand he could have - if he wanted to do otherwise. But, by virtue of being that character, Hitler, he never wanted otherwise.

[wundermonk]

Every moment is generated directly from God; in a sense there is no past or future.

If there is no past or future - in other words - if there is no time, then nothing ever can happen. Things are frozen solid, including God!

I am aware of all arguments that try to resolve the omniscience vs free will debate. But I find none of them convincing.

Nyaya Darshana is probably the only school that does not explicitly make the claim that God knows the future. Also, time and space are immaterial substances that serves as the common causes of all change.

No space or no time? Then nothing can ever happen or come into being.

[ZarryT]

If there is no past or future - in other words - if there is no time, then nothing ever can happen. Things are frozen solid, including God!

I am aware of all arguments that try to resolve the omniscience vs free will debate. But I find none of them convincing.

Nyaya Darshana is probably the only school that does not explicitly make the claim that God knows the future. Also, time and space are immaterial substances that serves as the common causes of all change.

No space or no time? Then nothing can ever happen or come into being.

In the same way that one thought follows another in your mind, the passing moments of time precede and follow one another in the god mind; god isn't frozen in time - time is change, and change is merely change in the content of god's mind.

The point of being alive as a human being is so that god can get away from / have a holiday from being god (brahman) - so that it can exist in a state where the future is unknown and where it can act and make decisions.

For god there is no space and no time in which it finds itself - all space and time on the other hand, in the very way we perceive them, are found inside god (brahman).

If god is everywhere, everything that will ever be - then nothing changes for it unless it enters a mortal life in which it can perceive itself linearly rather than entirely at once.

[kallol]

I feel bad for Akram. He only asked for permission. Are we so inconfident to defend our position or stick to our scriptures because someone is giving his view from another side ?

That way we have so many sects with different interpretations.

I would not mind shutting one up, if he is abusive or intolerant but I believe healthy discussions should have its own space.