Hindu Bashing

[Sahasranama]

Who started that campaign? i think rajiv malhotra pet disciple and main defender of sexy nitty, our viagrahamsa do they really know what a true Sannyassin has too do with his genitals?

I am only asking why do these type of hindu activists think they can attack their longstanding friends and supporters in the west and hope to get away with this?

If we are talking about Rajiv Malhotra, I agree that he has been a first class hypocrite. If he would also criticise Nithyananda and Sai Baba equally, I would have a lot more respect for him.

[sm78]

If we are talking about Rajiv Malhotra, I agree that he has been a first class hypocrite. If he would also criticise Nithyananda and Sai Baba equally, I would have a lot more respect for him.

Rajiv is a publicity seeking "intellectual" - his original bashing of so called Christian treat was to get some solid grounding among pro-hindutva crowd in US. Now he is hobnobbing with Jesuit scholar. I may be wrong, but I don't really care.

I think we are fussing over different and little things.

1. Prevelance of "superstition", quite rampant in some parts - One issue

2. Low morality standard among Indians and India - Another Issue

3. Criticism of westerners Interested in Hinduism or western hindus - Another Issue

4. Interest of Christians in the west, their nexus with Indian church and Maoists - Another Issue.

Even though one of them might have some influence on the other, we should remeber these are independent issue mostly.

I am more concerned with 1 & 2 as it is more pertinent, but accepting 1 & 2 doesn't mean there is no merit in 3 & 4.

In this forum, we on the other hand tend to completely brush aside 1 & 2 and always fall on 3 & 4 - mostly on #3 (jumbling it up with #4) which should be the least interesting and important topic for general Hindus. Hindus don't generally seek conversion, and number of western hindus are rather limited. If there is some misconception in this circle it is rather insignficant. Hinduism is not like Tibetan Buddhism which needs western patronage to survive.

The news item which started this thread had only relation to topics #1 and #2, but except me everybody saw it w.r.t #3 & #4 - and this is quite alarming. Many here tend to be westerners who have struggled with Christianity and western culture, and they are even more likely to fall for this syndrome than Indians in India.

In interest of protraying "Good" & "Positive" side, we may ignore incidents and topics related to #1 & #2, but one should try to avoid using them for #3 and #4 - makes no sense nor displays any positive merit in ourselves.

[MahaHrada]

Even though one of them might have some influence on the other, we should remeber these are independent issue mostly.

What these things have in common is that one is the problem the other is the reaction to the problem.

1.) If there is a problem in business, society or religion and the reaction is to blame it on , or immediately use the opportunity to attack an enemy, this is done to deflect attention from the issue, it is a clear indication of an attempt to completly avoid change and of a supremacist mindset.

2.)If there is a problem and you attack a strawman, an imagined enemy, it becomes a pathological reaction, an issue of mental health. It is not rational anymore.

This is of course even worse than the first case. Time to go and look for proffesional counselling and help.

Extremists react in this pattern Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol pot, Che guevara, also the diverse Islamists nowadays they all use or used an imagined enemy to deflect attention and erect a reign of terror.

3.)Setting up your friends, supporters, and allies as strawman appears insane and is unheard of, but thats what is done by Rajiv Malhotra, and other Hindu activists like Rampuri Baba , the HAF etc right now, with their campaigns against yoga, a campaign that appears self destructive.

We find this pattern of infight also especially within extremist ideologies.

The fast growing expertise and the overall excellent quality of western Yoga teachers and Schools, nowadays after decades of western practiconers have contributed a lot that is unique to this topic even improving yoga by modern anatomical and therapeutic knowledge, this has become unwanted Competition to the godman business.

Hindu activists are most likely misused for spreading a business related agenda.

India could also profit from this enhanced scientific knowledge of yoga that has develped in the west but hindu activists have choosen instead of putting Yoga up as a strawman and demolishing it.

[Flowing Along]

From SM's response
" 1.Prevelance of "superstition", quite rampant in someparts - One issue
2. Low morality standard among Indians and India - Another Issue"

Namste friends

We can start by

1. Understand Indian tribals are Hindus who happened to stay back inthe forests unlike us who learnt some “ sophistication”. There are NO folkdeities . Eg. A Pechayi is another form of VakDevi with the same attributes.
2. Read more on Indian History and World History to see “patterns”.For example a children’s picture encyclopedia talks about native Americansas” human sacrificers” .A child of tenmay have the smart to ask how they ALL disappeared.
suddenly [ rocks from outer space?!] . Whereas as adult mind lovesto delude itself and others.

3. Know History is written by victors,Stop believing all that’s reported by favorite newspapers . Useyour own power of analysis to discern news. [ rather than bash fellow, powerless Hindus] See all too obvious hints.
Check JaiMaDurga’s posting with the image and understand the difference in reporting andknow we are susceptible to the power of suggestion with words. Rise above it !
I ‘ll mention again, I am with that idea JMD puts there.

4.Be aware that there are Hindu groups and Swamis who work in the NEand some surrounding states against conversion. Their work not only goes unsung ,they get shot as well.

Point no 2 needlessly generalises , we need not do that . Thereare plenty of people who’re doing that.

SM says: "3. Criticism of westerners Interested in Hinduism or western hindus - AnotherIssue"
This again should not be a generalisation-all of them aren't good or bad . Take case to case.

SM :4. Interest of Christians in the west, their nexus with Indian church andMaoists - Another Issue.

Point no 4 ,and this response by Charitra
" But many cases go unreported in remote areasof Bihar, an eastern state where the Ho and Santhal tribes live. These clanslived for centuries in deep forests, surviving on its produce and taking littlefrom the outside world. They hunt with bows, worship nature and swear loyaltyto the village headman."

Hmmm they certainly dont sound like hindus, do they? If they dont want tochange their ways wih the changing times what options do we responsiblecitizens have? Send the social workers and remove kids from those ghettos whichis what happens in civilized world ? I think so. Waco, Texas and BranchDavidian massacre comes to mind. Another important thing. The seven sisterstates in northeast have been successfully evangelized in case some of you arenot aware of it. The majority are not hindus, they are christians, mostlybaptists and Protestants. More crosses are seen there than Oms. The MPs arechristians by faith, Miss Sangma is one such big name from those states.. Allhindu festivals are banned in Manipur, Mizoram,Tripura etc. The 'separatistshold a Kalashnikov in one hand a Bible in the other'. Before someone getstempted to get noisy, please understand I rerad this in Guardian sometime lastyear and the reporter was an Englishman who spent a few days visiting theareas.. Hindus as always didnt intervene and now live in fear there. Only Armycan live without any fear in those remote parts of the nation.Namaste”

Take them together and let's check our inferences again

[Flowing Along]

Witch hunt is a typical malady of a medieval Christian society , one that

1. Effectively silenced dissidents

2. Demonized them and thus justified these holy hunts/silencing

3. Pit people against each other and silenced any potential dissidents.

Brilliant. If only they’d used this smart to help people instead of this…

Considering all this ,we should take any news item with a lot of salt. Why this? Why now? Why Santals who are said to resist conversions?

On the other hand , if it is proved to be a new Hindu Malady, can our Govt. provide basic protection to Hindu Swamijis who work there to help tribals ?Arm chair talk is one thing, they are actually working there , do we at least remember them?

Swami Lakshmananda ismore relevant to this thread rather than Rampuri babas and Yogas .

I know that neither I nor anyone can convince those who think Hindus should be eternally grateful toall that the powers in the West dishes out to them [ note: NO generalization here.I am not saying West ]–be it colonial suppression.History twists, turmeric patents , all those Yoga patents, etc.

No medicine for Jalpa or Vitanda …

This is for those who want to discuss things without biases.-for eg. when you come across news like “human sacrifice” in Kali temple in Tanjore , stop, ask for facts and take it with a pinch of salt.

I saw that threads here about “ sacrifices “ in Tanjore and would have laughed but for the malice in that "news" .

I know Tanjore, -still as an open minded Hindu [ our strength as well as weakness] we may not cry “ I don’t believe that!” when we see solid proof-but if a bloke cutshis tongue or someone else’s in the name of sacrifice , that is an exception rather than a rule , Hindus say such criminals should be suitably dealt with legally. So where’s the problem?

I request Western Hindus as well as Indian Hindus to consider things well before condemning anything./assuming things to be true.Similar "news" have been going around since the time of Swami Vivekananda .Read his humor filled responses to funny .ignorant questions. But where there may be truth, the Hindu has no qualms in admitting it as he sincerely wants to clean his frontyard.He may not be 100 % perfect [ if he were, he'd be elsewhere and not in this World!] but he is better than most in that department.

I myself ‘ve struggled with a lot of distortions/wrong ideas about our own religion/society as reported by those whose intentions weren’t good. We Indians have had an education that Macaulay is laughing about in his grave but now I ‘ve decided we need to carefully consider things first before jumping to those conclusions that the newspaper expects us to.

I am not suggesting maybe a great conspiracy , it may be just simply “ racy” from a news point of view- –but do Hindus deserve the bashing?

After all we’d all agree that dubbing an America despite the many great strides she has made in many fields as “ steeped in the dark middle ages “[ based on her Warren Jeffs or other such similar cult leaders] would be plain stupid and arrogant.

[sm78]

[COLOR=black]Witch hunt is a typical malady of a medieval Christian society , one that

...call this stunned in time and space or something else, this is way beyond retarded and even psychological help.

...while in real terms hindus continue to loose ground in India. An aggressive campaign to further double the job quota for muslims in UP is in full swing, while KT lays stone for a brand new Haj complex with taxpayers money, convicted terrorists & mass murders are kept alive at tax payers money, while hindu monks are jailed and tortured without proof and detained indefinitely.

...but like broken record of baba ramdev lectures, so called Hindus can only bash people who do not exist anymore or do not have any role in their lives, and completely refuse to acknowledge the stinking filth within (which is demonstrated quite by these posts).

[MahaHrada]

Witch hunt is a typical malady of a medieval Christian society , one that [/FONT][/COLOR]

This is wrong the Roman and Greek society already had witch trials and the medieval witch hunt was based on excerpts of pagan roman law besides christian concepts, there are witch hunts and trials all over Africa today and also Saudi arabian courts have recently ordered several executions of witches.

I know about instances in Jharkand, where my gurus guru was born, of people that even nowadays practice witch trials and witch hunts regularly, they drive in cars to attend witch trials and not on buffalo cart, and own mobile phones not drums, and are by no means primitive forest dwellers, one of the family of the person accused as a witch has to come and attend the trial, the local seer or witch expert ask an oracle before the deity and decides if the acussed is a witch or not, if it is decided one member of the family of the witch has to kill her, otherwise the whole family will be rooted out and the house demolished. If a family member himself kill the alleged witch the others are only driven from the village and the house is demolished. So what usually happens is that preferably the youngest son will behead the alleged witch, who could be his mother or grandmother or sister and will carry the chopped of head to the police and confess the crime, in most of these cases nobody will(or wants) to find out why the murder happened. That also means that statistic of witch hunts if they even exists give considerably lower figures and the actual witch hunt count is infinitlely higher than the statistics suggest.

It has been argued in this thread that this is a new phenomena, by no means can this practice be called new, there are records of witch hunts and human sacrifices dating back approximately 1500 years ago, but the origin of religious killings, bloody sacrifice and witch hunt might well be much older. Also practises to sacrifice children for finding hidden treasures and mystical powers etc. besides the ones for fertility are even nowadays common in some regions.

To even think that this is secular media, christian, or western propaganda is ridicilous, it is of course a taboo to talk about it, and i understand if some western converts or NRI s are looking at indias society and religion through rose colored glasses and have no idea of what is going on, but desis should be aware of such things, even if unwilling to talk about it.

But those with a love for their country and hindu rashtra should admit to that, and at least feel sad about the suffering and plight of the downtrodden, murdered, tortured, sick and disowned people.

All this will not get better by deflecting blame to strawman.

[charitra]

@ Mahahrada,
Namaste. You took a swipe at Hindu American Foundation (HAF) in one of the above posts. Do you mind enligthning me the underlying reasons, specifying some of their activism that was objectionable to you.

[MahaHrada]

@ Mahahrada,
Namaste. You took a swipe at Hindu American Foundation (HAF) in one of the above posts. Do you mind enligthning me the underlying reasons, specifying some of their activism that was objectionable to you.

Yes the smear campaign that attacks some schools of Yoga which have a larger following in the west and are apparently seen as an unwanted competition to Indian based businesses and godman. To attack Yoga as somewhat opposed to true hinduism is self destructive for the Hindu cause.

[Flowing Along]

Namaste SM

...call this stunned in time and space or something else, this is way beyond retarded and even psychological help.

Thanks for letting me know in no uncertain terms that you are not interested in any reasonable communication.

If you think another person's ideas are wrong, you could do a point by point rebuttal .
Personal insults/rude name calling is no way people conduct any reasonable exchange.

Naturally you have nothing else to say regarding all the other issues I have raised .

I would not have posted looking at the ugly turn this conversation took but I felt I should put my side of points for anyone who'd be reading in future.

MH too,in his earlier post was talking about phychological help and Hitler .

Well, I didn't expect this kind of exchange here. In some other sites discussing Dharma issues, some people do this to divert attention from real issues.

Thanks again .

Namaste MH
I see you say things in a more measured way here compared to the previous post. Appreciate that.
I said , if witch hunting is indeed an issue in India that needs a positive intervention by Hindu Swamis ,they are there to help provided they are allowed to work in peace.Am not surprised you have nothing to say about other points. Please go through my earlier post on this .
Pranam