Hitler and why Abrahamic soteriology sucks

[MahaHrada]

Whether Hitler believes in Jesus and is saved or does not and is condemned, each of the Jews he killed ends up in hell for not giving up their religion and converting to Christianity. And that, I think, is the truly immoral part of Christian soteriology. .... But we do not believe that a non-Hindu will burn for all eternity due to theological error.

I am living in a christian country and i really dislike this religion but to be fair i must say i never met a christian who belives or even knows that he must belive such hair raising theologies to be a christian. Apparently judging from this thread, Hindus know Christianity better than the Christians i know.
Except some raving fanatics that hand out leaflets in the streets, nobody belives in adam and eve, original sin, heaven and hell or the existance of the devil. Or thinks that you have to belive in Jesus to go to heaven. (or even belives that there is a heaven or life after death) But if you ask them nonetheless they would say they are Christians. What that practically means is that they belive that there is a god, they have to marry in a church and service must be held when they have a child or die, and they think one should be a good person not steal and lie etc. because god said so, there is hardly anyone who would care so much as to privately say a prayer.

Probably it is so that hindu and islamic society is that fanatic about all religious topics and so they think that everybody else must just be as preoccupied with religious beliefs in such an exaggerated way, and feel offended every other day and rant and rave about such things just as they do, so it is a cultural gap and some people cannot imagine how few Christians are interested in what kind of rubbish exactly is written in the bible. They may have a bible somewhere in the house their grand grand father bought, but no one is reading that book.
Maybe in some parts of the USA this is different, in the so called bible belt. But one would be hard pressed to find anyone in Europe who would belief for one second that a Hindu or Jew would end up in hell and Hitler in Heaven.
There will come a day when no one but Hindus and Muslims will be interested in what kind of rubbish exactly is written in the Bible and still take these idiotic superstitions from a long bygone age serious enough to rant on about it, when everyone else has already forgotten about this dumb book for ages.

[Moonlight]

I was thinking about something similar to this and came up with something cool.

So the saying goes that in the end times someone will come to you and say something like "have you yearned for a massiah to save you?" to me that seems very egoistic question to ask "oh yes! I have yearned the massiah all my life please save me!" 

A wise person would say "I have not yearned for a massiah, for my goal is not to desire but to serve the heavenly father by Reading his scriptures around the world" they would say "explain" and the wise reply "the scriptures teaches us not to desire but to serve without any attachments, if you let those who are attached to there egos you are letting dirt enter the heavens.

For sure hitler and others alike will not enter the higher realms and now thinking about it there was a parable which is symbolic where it says that the dirty (egoistic) clothed man will be kicked out and the ones in white robes (pure clean mind like a child) will stay. 

So people like hitler and Constantine will not enter cause of there egoistic desires. It's clear in all scriptures that you must be clean inside like clear water.

Alot of people have great anger here when it comes to abrhamic's topics.

Read Bhagavad Gita Chapter 12:13-20

And as for the Christains...
A verse written 2,000 years ago by the Gnostics:

"if someone dives deep into the well of living water and surfaces empty handed, saying, "I am a Christian,"
He has only borrowed the name with intrest. 
If he receives the holy spirit, his Name is the gift" 
"John wrote, "truth will set you free"
Ignorance is slavery
Self knowledge Is liberation.

nither hitler nor Constantine or any Christain have gained Self knowledge and only borrowed the name with intrest. No one will enter heaven till they reach that oneness.                

[satay]

namaste,
anger? We are just discussing the rubbish of the abrahamic. There is nothing wrong with that.

It has been conculded by many internet christians that hitler or anyone accepting JC as their only saviour and lord ends up in heaven in service of Bible God.

Go to any christian forum and ask. There is no point sitting there with your head in the sand and shooting the messenger. Hindus didn't make up this nonsense, christians are telling us to accept JC if we want to end up in heaven. Bible God is rubbish nonsense.

Alot of people have great anger here when it comes to abrhamic's topics.

[satay]

namaste Maha,

Except some raving fanatics that hand out leaflets in the streets, nobody belives in adam and eve, original sin, heaven and hell or the existance of the devil. Or thinks that you have to belive in Jesus to go to heaven. (or even belives that there is a heaven or life after death) .

Up here in Canada what you are saying about Christians is simply not true. One only needs to watch the sunday services on TV or in person to find out. When was the last time you attended a church or watched a service on TV? I watch two services every Sunday just to keep in the know.

[Adhvagat]

Satay, but Mahahrad has a point.

Hindus take themselves seriously because dharma/religion is ingrained in their social living in a different way.

A Christian may call himself one but may be one in a very irreflected manner.

[MahaHrada]

namaste Maha,



Up here in Canada what you are saying about Christians is simply not true. One only needs to watch the sunday services on TV or in person to find out. When was the last time you attended a church or watched a service on TV? I watch two services every Sunday just to keep in the know.

Here they have no christian channel, also no services or sermons on tv of any kind, no one would listen, if a cleric would talk about the devil ore hell people would leave i guess, but i only have been in church at funerals and there was not one who even wanted a cleric do the talk.
Probably i am blesssed to live in europe If there would be sermons on tv people would be bored

[satay]

namaste,
Ah...I thought you were in the US. Yes, in Europe they don't have the services on TV at least not in the part that I visited a few years back.
I think Europeans have finally realized the truth and successfully exported their garbage to other continents.

Here they have no christian channel, also no services or sermons on tv of any kind, no one would listen, if a cleric would talk about the devil ore hell people would leave i guess, but i only have been in church at funerals and there was not one who even wanted a cleric do the talk.
Probably i am blesssed to live in europe If there would be sermons on tv people would be bored

[Jainarayan]

Namaste satayji and others.

Namaste,
In chapter 2 Gita it is explained that it is not the killing that is the sin in itself but the intent and if that killing is in accord with ones duty. When speaking of hitler one must look at his intent and not only action. God has already explained that in Gita. Every action is judged by the karmic law in terms of accordance with ones duty.
That said, I agree with the op. I refuse to accept the heaven in which criminals are sitting with god. To that end I reject such an unjust, egoist and foolish god.

I'm late to this, but satayji hit the nail on the head. It's not the action but the intent. I'd like to add something further. Lord Krishna also says in Bhagavad Gita 9.30 "Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination."

One cannot deliberately commit an "abominable act" if one is focused and fixed on the Lord. I cannot and will not subscribe to the idea that Hitler or Pol Pot or Aileen Wuornos were redeemed and given salvation because they uttered the names of God at their deaths.

In VishishtAdvaita there are two thoughts:

Vadakalai View Some positive gesture is necessary on the part of the jeevatma to deserve the grace of God, because He can be deemed partial if He grants Moksha to all both deserving and undeserving.

Thenkalai View Lord's grace is spontaneous. He grants Moksha to anyone who accepts Him alone as the means to attain it and has the ripened desire to attain it.

Unless I'm totally dense, I don't see much difference between these two schools of thought. The common thread is that one must make gestures (i.e. bhakti, imo) for salvation. I do not believe that means living a life of evil then at the last moment calling out "Hare Krishna!" and expecting grace and moksha.

[Jainarayan]

Namaste.

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, that's "evangelical worshiptainment". It's an abomination and a joke. I can't help but laugh at the fire and brimstone sermons, the closed eyes and uplifted hands, not to mention the swaying as if it were California's "Big One". The tv commercials for "Christian Rock" music are no less laughable. These people are just trying too hard. And they are dangerous, though the sermons of Mother Angelica and Bishop Fulton J. Sheen (Roman Catholics) are no less narrow-minded, but at least are not hate-filled and full of "you'll burn in hell" drivel.

namaste Maha,



Up here in Canada what you are saying about Christians is simply not true. One only needs to watch the sunday services on TV or in person to find out. When was the last time you attended a church or watched a service on TV? I watch two services every Sunday just to keep in the know.

[MahaHrada]

namaste,
Ah...I thought you were in the US. Yes, in Europe they don't have the services on TV at least not in the part that I visited a few years back.
I think Europeans have finally realized the truth and successfully exported their garbage to other continents.

Yes U.S must be a terrible place regarding christian superstitions, and hate speech tv preachers, i thought canada is more advanced. It is sad to hear that there are still so many people who think like that outside the bible belt.