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Thread: Hare Krishna!

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    So what's the source of jiva and brahman? Do they have a common source or creator or is it assumed that they both exit eternally and have no creator?

    satay
    In any Vedanta philosophy, including HKs(I attend their Gita classes), accept that JIVA is CO-ETERNAL with ISHWARA(LORD), but one the less all JIVAS are ETERNALLY DEPENDENT on ISHWARA(Lord VISNU) even for their existence. You can refer to GITA verses in second chapter.

    http://www.asitis.com/2/12.html

    Chapter 2. Contents of the Gita Summarized
    TEXT 12
    na tv evaham jatu nasam
    na tvam neme janadhipah
    na caiva na bhavisyamah
    sarve vayam atah param
    SYNONYMS
    na--never; tu--but; eva--certainly; aham--I; jatu--become; na--never; asam--existed; na--it is not so; tvam--yourself; na--not; ime--all these; jana-adhipah--kings; na--never; ca--also; eva--certainly; na--not like that; bhavisyamah--shall exist; sarve--all of us; vayam--we; atah param--hereafter.
    TRANSLATION
    Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkannan1
    In any Vedanta philosophy, including HKs(I attend their Gita classes), accept that JIVA is CO-ETERNAL with ISHWARA(LORD), but one the less all JIVAS are ETERNALLY DEPENDENT on ISHWARA(Lord VISNU) even for their existence. You can refer to GITA verses in second chapter.
    so that means jiva is eternal i.e. no creator but they depend on Bhagwan for existence? Doesn't that imply that Bhagwan is the creator and can stop jiva from being 'eternally' existing?

    satay

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    so that means jiva is eternal i.e. no creator but they depend on Bhagwan for existence? Doesn't that imply that Bhagwan is the creator and can stop jiva from being 'eternally' existing?

    satay
    Yes. You are right in that way. But the point was made to show the fallacy in question that Brahman is divided because of existence of Jivas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    I generally have a respecful view of the organisation mainly because they are the only hindu organisation who "convert" non-hindu's.

    Apart from that I'm hardly aware of their philosophy, but virtual interaction has been negative from my angle. It seems their version of krishna and hinduism is very abrahamic. But may be my idea's are wrong.
    Namaste, Singhi,

    1. It is wrong that only ISCKON accepts non-indians into hinduism. MANY traditional and modern Hindu (and neo-hindu) traditions do so.
    Recently it became possible for non-indians even to enter brahmanic gotras!
    BTW Tantrism always was open to "yavanas", i. e. foreigners

    2. Philosophy of ISCKON is rather far from general Vaishnavism and even from Chaitanya's tradition, regardless of their claims.

  5. #25
    Namaskar,

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna
    Namaste, Singhi,

    1. It is wrong that only ISCKON accepts non-indians into hinduism. MANY traditional and modern Hindu (and neo-hindu) traditions do so.
    Recently it became possible for non-indians even to enter brahmanic gotras!
    BTW Tantrism always was open to "yavanas", i. e. foreigners
    I has a faint idea that we do these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna
    2. Philosophy of ISCKON is rather far from general Vaishnavism and even from Chaitanya's tradition, regardless of their claims.
    I have no idea of the philosophy - the full form of ISCKON turned me off.
    Another turn-off acronym is Transcendental Meditation TM

  6. Re: Hare Krishna!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna
    Namaste, Singhi,
    2. Philosophy of ISCKON is rather far from general Vaishnavism and even from Chaitanya's tradition, regardless of their claims.
    Where do you get this idea?
    Bhava dasa (ACBSP)

  7. Re: Hare Krishna!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan

    The preaching part is OK, as long as it is done in a fair and correct manner.
    Do you mind defining, "fair and correct manner"?
    Bhava dasa (ACBSP)

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    Re: Hare Krishna!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhava dasa
    Do you mind defining, "fair and correct manner"?
    By providing a correct definition of the philosophy of the religion preaching itself, and how it stands with respect to other systems in terms of correctness and validity. One should not find that the religion that was preached to them is not the same when they start practising. There should absolutely be no brainwashing and freewill must be respected. In other words, it must not stoop to the level of Paul's christianity, and also not to the level of Islam. If somebody says no, leave them and dont pester them a second time and stop passing judgements on their fate and some punishments in store for them. Also, dont preach the religion in the market place, where religion is sold like dog licenses. Always allow disciples to scrutinize the religion and never turn a blind eye to their questions, and never use God's name and blasphemies to silence people.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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    Re: Hare Krishna!

    Namaste Sudharsan

    Good to see you back again.

    Isnt it the term "Brainwashing" seems much relative in usage? What is brainwashing for me is not brainwashing for another.

    I am particularly interested as you indicated Islam in association with Brainwashing, which I can understand in terms of threat directly perceived by Kafir by the very presence of Islam (External Threat) or a case as such can be of internal threat like refusing soul or refusing development of soul, fitting into Isavasya statement - Aatmahane (Asuryaa naamathe loka ....)

    I cannot ascribe ISKCON doing both

    For other parts of your comments, I leave it to Shri Bhava Dasa

  10. #30
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    Re: Hare Krishna!

    Quote Originally Posted by ramkish42
    Namaste Sudharsan

    Good to see you back again.

    Isnt it the term "Brainwashing" seems much relative in usage? What is brainwashing for me is not brainwashing for another.

    I am particularly interested as you indicated Islam in association with Brainwashing, which I can understand in terms of threat directly perceived by Kafir by the very presence of Islam (External Threat) or a case as such can be of internal threat like refusing soul or refusing development of soul, fitting into Isavasya statement - Aatmahane (Asuryaa naamathe loka ....)

    I cannot ascribe ISKCON doing both

    For other parts of your comments, I leave it to Shri Bhava Dasa
    ooh, I have not indicated ISKCON anywhere. I am just giving definition for what he asked. It is upto them to decide if they fall in this category. I do not think ISCKON is doing most of them.

    It must be clear when I referenced Islam, which is based on terrorism and force. Which you cannot ascribe to ISKCON anyway. Sorry if there was any misunderstanding.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

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