Feeling tainted?

[Jainarayan]

Namaste Sunyata.

I know exactly how you feel. I too come from a Christian background, and I don't care what anyone says about purging its effects (yes, I've said it too), it's not easy and can take a long time, if ever to get rid of the feelings of guilt.

The indoctrination of it is deeper than anyone who has never been Christian can possibly imagine. We are indoctrinated and brainwashed that God will punish us for the slightest reason. Even if you are Christian, that is not the right belief... it's what the priests and nuns twisted, perverted and taught us. But we are raised with it, and it is like the scar on the skin of a brand from a hot branding iron... it will never go away.

That said, I do and don't do many things that will, have, would and do horrify the native-born and/or long-ago converted Hindus here and elsewhere. Am I making up my own version of Hinduism and cherry-picking? Maybe, but who has the authority to judge? Only God. 900 million Hindus will give 900 million answers to a single question or 900 million versions of a single story. Agree or disagree, right or wrong, this is my belief.

I do not do puja, rather I light candles on my altar, I ring the bell, I say some prayers, mantras and stotram, I wave the light. I do this only in the evening. I'm sorry, I just have no time in the morning. However, I do say some of the prayers and the Maha Mantra as I am driving. I also sing or chant along with the bhajans, kirtans and mantras I have in my iPod I play through the radio. I also do this during the day at work and in my daily routine. The Lord really is never far from my thoughts.

I am beginning to make it a nightly practice of japa after my evening "aarti". But, and here is the big "but", last night was the first night since last Monday night, Maha Shivaratri that I did aarti and japa. One thing after another put itself ahead of a simple candle and Maha Mantra.

99% of the time I forget to offer my food (that which is vegetarian) to Krishna and I do feel badly, no guilty after I begin eating. Why, because "they say you should" and will cite the Bhagavad Gita. Does that not sound familiar? I am not vegetarian yet I wear a tulsi kanthi. Yes, horror of horrors, let the chastisement begin. Why do I do this? For two reasons... I read an article written by a guru or pandit saying it didn't matter; I wish I could remember where, but it is one of those things that sticks in your mind after you see it. Besides, I'm sure someone might call that pandit a fraud. Another person wrote that wearing it in this way is a reminder that I belong to Radha and Krishna, and through this "transgression" They may very well assist me in my journey.

Do I feel guilty and tainted because of all this? Yes, but not because it's wrong in and of itself, or because after I leave this body I will be consigned to the lowest level of Naraka, never to rise again, but because Christianity, and to an extent Hinduism and Hindus have said these sorts of things are wrong and this will be my fate.

Yes, I love the lights, the incense, the images and murtis; but they are not the whole story. I know you saw the story I posted in the
What will you do on coming ShivarAtri ? thread about Bhima's mental puja to Shiva. And I'm sure you remember the line someone else said: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."

This may not sit well with some, and for this I'll take my lumps, but Hinduism on the human level is not without its share of judgmentalism, nonsense, superstitious silliness and guilt-placing, placing rituals and doctrine above love for God. Paraphrasing devotee, God does not need japa, candles, incense, fasting, temple-attendance... we need it, only if we feel it brings us closer to God. So why do I have a shrine, do the bell-ringing, lights and incense, japa, etc. when I do it? Because I like it, and it's the way I've found to spend concentrated time with God. Not because He needs it.

Feeling tainted and sinful and unworthy will only lead to self-separation from God. My former Eastern Orthodox priest used to say (from the Christian perspective, of course) that God does send us to hell, we send ourselves to hell by separating ourselves from Him. Deep-six the guilt and remember that God is everywhere from the grandest temples to the lowliest back-alley brothels; He loves everyone from the most righteous devotee to the most promiscuous prostitute. He does not want us to mentally suffer and stress over feeling unworthy.

So there ends my rambling dissertation, for good or ill.

[charitra]

Tainted? Don’t think so. At 24, someone baring her heart to fellow hindus, that too on a Sunday evening. It says a lot, doesnt it? You never left, you just took a vacation. Its Ok to take a vacation IMHO.

On a side note, I don’t want to be 20 again, the distractions, the stresses pouring from career, relationships and whatnot. The whole package that goes with 20s is thoroughly overwhelming. At times I used to feel the world is an homogeneous insensitive monster, and worse I used to blame God for sleeping ignoring the jivas. I got over it, but then life takes its toll though.

I make an F- grade on murthi worship scale, and my wife a B+ grade. I used to play a CD while driving to work and that’s the prayer all for the day. Im not trying to be funny here, I know honesty has its own advantages. Lastly why do (former) christians get obsessed with this sin feeling consuming their life, anyone? I guess this is a phobia, result of some kind of child abuse from reading scary lines to them when young, no? Namaste.

[Jainarayan]

The indoctrination of it [the feelings of guilt and unworthiness] is deeper than anyone who has never been Christian can possibly imagine. We are indoctrinated and brainwashed that God will punish us for the slightest reason. ... But we are raised with it, and it is like the scar on the skin of a brand from a hot branding iron... it will never go away.

Lastly why do (former) christians get obsessed with this sin feeling consuming their life, anyone? I guess this is a phobia, result of some kind of child abuse from reading scary lines to them when young, no? Namaste.

See my quote. Yes, it is a form of verbal, emotional and mental abuse.

[sunyata07]

Namaste everyone,

My thanks to each and every one of you who responded and also those who didn't, because strangely I regretted bringing this topic the moment I hit the "post" button. Embarrassed for being so honest about what I'm going through, but I also feel strangely relieved for having admitted I'm not spiritually perfect. Not by a long shot! And yet, I realise much of what I am going through right now are just thought clouds passing through. Having experienced some troubles lately have made them prone to being of the negative kind, but they're not all negative I am most grateful to say. I will bear in mind all the advice and suggestions my fellow Hindus have shared with me.

EM, I can't thank you enough for being honest enough to admit you've had breaks yourself, and quite long ones at that. You're one of the oldest, most egoless souls I know. I can take heart from that that having a break does not necessarily mean I am no longer Hindu. I need to get this black-and-white concept of being Hindu out of my head. It isn't simply wearing a tilak, eating vegetarian foods, performing puja, or even praying to Hindu deities. It's so much more than that, but I am only slowly very slowly coming to realise that in the deeper parts of my mind, my subconscious where I've been raised to think God is this, I am that. If I sin, God will disapprove and naturally separate Himself from me and leave me feeling even more miserable. You don't know how deeply this is drilled into you when you've been raised as a Christian reading the Old Testament.

TBTL, you certainly raise some points that our more conservative Hindu brothers would argue with, but you definitely have hit the mark on some things. I believe the essence of a faith, however good can sometimes be so convoluted, so twisted from the contributions of thousands that it can seem so overwhelming to us. Is it any wonder some begin to doubt themselves and their very worth as a being deserving of God's love?

Thank you all for your compassion and welcomes back. I will begin slowly again, with just the odd bhajan every night and a look back over some of the scriptures that captured my love for Hinduism in the first place. You know, it's a bit like climbing out of the lake after you've had the most refreshing swim of your life. You take a break for whatever reason, feel a vague yearning to go back for a dip and then find it's bloody freezing again to even dip a toe back in. Weird analogy, but I honestly think it just sums up how I've been feeling about my worth as a soul who knows deep in his heart, he wants to jump straight back into those lovely waters and lose himself in them. Patience is one of the things I've been told over and over again to try and cultivate. I will slough off these negative thoughts and stoically press on. Thank you again.

Om namah Shivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

Take a stone. Bring it to the polishing wheel and begin. Over time the blemishes are removed; yet some of the pits within the stone are there even with this polishing. They are a bit deeper and take more work to remove them.


But it is by 'discovery' that many blemishes (mala) make themselves apparent to the native. Just like the stone you think that the spot was removed, yet when you hold it up to the light , the blemish stands out.

So it takes some reflection to find places where the polishing needs to continue.
Sometimes this reflection comes from others, sometimes you have an insight a ahhh-ha! moment and the flash comes to you.




praṇām

[devotee]

Namaste Sunyata,

Someone just mentioned your age in one of the above posts & that made me think !

At such an young age when you are not able to keep yourself steadfast on your resolve and you are thinking on your being so much "worthless" and what not ... what should I think of myself at this age when I keep falling, getting up and falling again to get up again and this cycle keeps repeating ? Till now, I am not out of this vicious cycle.

If you people are going to hell, I think I would certainly be already there before you reach. Be sure.

OM

[Obelisk]

Namaste Sunyata,

So glad to see you back here, I really missed your beautiful and informative posts. Apologies for being late; I had seen your post yesterday and was planning a reply, but forgot about it due to some work. Excellent advice has been given here already, but I'll add in my two rupees anyway.

Actually, I can really understand what you mean - it might be surprising but even over here in India, the motherland of Hinduism, the idea of God being a guy in the clouds ready to cast sinners into hell has firmly taken its place in much of the Hindu mindset (a side effect of the several years of the Mughal and British empires, I reckon) and being "God-fearing" is actually considered to be a good thing. Despite coming from a pretty orthodox Hindu family, even I have fallen prey to this kind of thought on occasion... especially when I did reckless stuff and felt guilty about it. There are so many holes in this conception of God that it isn't even worth discussing, but there's one thing I firmly believe in and wish to express - there is no tainting, no blemish, no impurity, no sinner. And most importantly, I say that there is no judging or punishment on God's behalf; he only distributes the fruits of our own karma. In our texts, God was in fact only blessing and liberating foul asuras even in the act of slaying them. He is always a part of us and the essence of our very existence, so how can we ever be blemished in any way?

The stories of God praising a pure-hearted, simple devotee over a selfish one well-versed in every mantra and scripture in existence is excellent example - what we do and our mindset during the same is what is more important. I myself have had troublesome periods where I did almost nothing spiritual, but IMHO, the goal of rituals is primarily to relax our mind and create a spiritually clean atmosphere in order for us to be able to pray and meditate more efficiently. I'm not really very well-versed in mantras and even on normal days, my usual routine only consists of reading the Hanuman Chalisa twice and asking Him for the well-being of all my loved ones (in common Hindi ). We all go through hardships or commit unintentional mistakes, but why would God punish us for that? Lord Krishna even accepted the murderous Puthana as a mother and liberated her when she had actually tried to kill him (and she was hardly a spiritual person )! All we should do is keep Him in our thoughts, see Him in everyone and everything else and let our actions demonstrate that.

If you ever feel this way again, remember the beautiful song, "Shivoham". There is nothing but That, He is our very existence... and how can He ever be impure in any way? Hope this helps a bit, and best wishes! God bless.

[anirvan]

[QUOTE]

Namaste,
if any of the things I am doing/practicing are a result of natural flow or am I forcing something upon myself against what my heart desires

.

Very good question.but who can give the right answer about what one"s heart desires at the moment? As long as the heart is under the influence of one desire,he is incapable of rational thinking.and once he pass through it,he is influence of another desire.this vicious cycle is going eternally.

Does my chosen path, and the way I practice/observe it complement my personal disposition? If the answer is yes, then there is nothing wrong with a brief lull in the sadhana. If however, any of it feels like an imposition, then something needs to be tweaked to set the course right. So, it is a matter of self evaluation, contemplation and making adjustments.

This statement is right,but only few are lucky/fortunate enough to realize their real need.during a good phage of life specifically spiritually will enable us to realize it,sometimes true guru can guide us.

Spiritual advancement is not a marathon to be completed in one go, but a slow and steady jog/walk lasting a lifetime. As such, it may require periods of rest and rejuvenation.

Spiritual advancement is definitely an marathon,may take years to many births,but for a seeker,it must be treated as 100m sprint, other wise the marathon will turn into yuga-yuga .just like a student may not top a class,but he must aim to top the university or state.

Am i wrong with this approach?

[sm78]

I am so grateful I have been given the chance to renew my understanding of what this universe is, what it all means, why we're here before I gave way like so many others in this increasingly secular and cruel world and became agnostic or atheist.

I don't think it is prudent to assume theism automatically gives a better understanding of the universe or that atheistic, agnostic people are missing something valuable in this world.

Human compassion when not punctured with barrage of beliefs will automatically drift towards atheism or agnosticism. Except for yoga and vedanta, the remaining orthodox hindu thought is basically non theistic. While not necessarily denying an absolute being (except samkhya) they don't see any specific role of such a being in human emancipation. The really ancient systems of sharmanas, jainas, bauddhas etc all follow the same approach. It is highly imprudent to ridicule agnosticsm or non-theism while believing in bharat dharma.

An agnostic or atheist person (unless he has become a commie politician) surely has a lot of compassion, something which cannot be said of most of the theists.

As for advice, I have sent my feelings (since you asked for it) via email/message. Needless to say I don't agree with the barrage of ga-ga responses to your post.

Edit to Add: Perhaves most of your thoughts are to do with your age brackett as someone has pointed out, so may be you can even discard my email advice even before looking at it. While Age is no restriction for knowledge I agree that for 'normal' human beings things are most difficult in the 20's and gradually ease out as we settle more in our 'conditions'. Anybody who has crossed the 2o's can vouch for that. I have heard that 40's onwards is even more conducive. Again 'normal' pattern, and there are always exceptions.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I've noticed some talk about age here. In my experience, often age has nothing to do with it. Difficulties, ability to express clear thoughts, religiousity, determination, adharmic behaviours like adultery, all that stuff seems to go across all ages.

There is a subtle not so nice message ... "I'm older than you; therefore I'm smarter."

For me personally, (obviously not a large enough sample size to be scientific) my hardest times (so far) were definitely my teens, from about 16 to 19, and then my late 40s, maybe 45 to 50. I loved my 20s, ... young, athletic, fresh into marriage, kids, and career, the 'new' faith, and full of energy. Ready to take on the world!

In the elderly, sure you see a lot of wiser experienced people, but you also see a lot of grumpy old hardened cynics, having unlearned the optimism of youth. Crusted by life, no longer feeling useful, depressed, many seem like they're just waiting to die.

As far as the lack of wisdom goes, no one is immune. I would venture to guess that if everyone here on HDF were to write a few sentences on their basic philosophy of life or 'What is Hinduism to you?" , without using any analogies or examples from their lives as hints, and then we had independent readers to guess ages, that those guesses would often be right off the mark.

Certainly if we look at innate wisdom as a cumulative thing through lifetimes, this lifetime is just one bead on a mala.

Aum Namasivaya