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Thread: Can I be Hindu?

  1. Can I be Hindu?

    I know that this is a loaded question here, but here me out.

    For the last 3 years I've considered myself agnostic (never an atheist). I left religion for a variety of reasons, and mainly they have to do with religion's rejection of human nature, along with their greed. To clarify, I grew up Christian. I dabbled a bit as a teenager in Neo-pagan religion, but other than that I remained Christian. I was born into a Protestant family, as a teenager I converted to Catholicism (on my own) which was the religion of my father's family, and in my early 20's I became Greek Orthodox. Eventually being out in the world, my beliefs began to be shaped differently (I became more of a rationalist), and many of those beliefs came into stark contrast with Christianity. As every time I went to any liturgical service at any church, it seemed they constantly asked for more money, that's when I decided to cut them off completely.

    This leads me to where I am now. As an agnostic I never stopped believing that something was there, just don't know how to describe it. I've been interested in Hinduism before, and actually posted on here ages ago. No matter how much I study, takes tests, whatever, I sem to teeter-totter between my ambiguous agnosticism, Hinduism, Mahayana Buddhism, and Neo-Paganism. There are parts in all three that seem to contrast my feelings and beliefs, yet Hinduism is the religion that probably comes closest to me, most specifically Shaktism and Shaivism. Personally, I view the universe itself with it's underlying flow of primordial energy as God/dess itself. I don't believe it's pure good or pure evil, it just is. I feel that life and all that is around us is a Divine play, and people need to realise that it's all just going to fade away. That's not to say don't participate in it, just realise that it's finite, not real, and only that core essence that is the universe is.

    Now, there are things that hold me back from Hinduism. Things that I wont give up, and restrictions in general are a part of the reason I left religion to begin with.

    1. Eating meat. most specifically beef. I understand the concept of ahimsa, but also feel that if an animal is slaughter in a way that is honourable to it's life, giving it thanks, I see no problem, as other animals as well eat other animals. I refer specifically to beef because I'm Argentinian, and eating beef is part of my culture, and I wont give up my culture and who I am to join something. Can I cut don drastically on beef eating to the point where it's only once in a blue? Yes. Can I make sure that what I'm eating is organic and had a good life? Yes. But if I find myself in Argentinian and with family, I'm not going to say no. It's insulting. And as for eating other animals, the same applies. That also brings me to tamasic foods... garlic, onion, and mushrooms are my favourite veggies... I'm not going to cut them from my diet and really don't understant why they are so bad.

    2. I embrace human nature and all forms of sexuality and pleasure, and refuse to reject it. This is again a huge reason I left religion to begin with. I think it's fine to have sex inside and outside of marriage, without whomever you want, with as many people as you want. I feel that society has created such narrow restriction for the most human of acts. I'm NOT saying go wild though. There is a time and a place for everything in life, and things should be done in moderation.

    3. Liquor. I've been known to imbibe from time to time once in a blue and find nothing wrong with it. It's not all the time, but when I do I have fun with it. Again all things in moderation.

    4. I smoke cannabis. Every day. It helps me to relax, and, at times, quite frankly, to meditate and be closer to God/dess. Again, there is nothing wrong with it, and there are many, many accounts of not only Hindu ascetics smoking cannabis, but as the plant being Divine and akin to Shiva Himself.

    5. I'm a little urked at what seems to me (not to be offensive) to be Hinduism effort to somehow prove they are similar in likeness to Abrahamic religions. I don't know, you all most likely vehemently disagree with me on this, but hear me out. It bothers me that Christians and Muslims yell about workshipping "false gods" or being "polytheists" (a very narrow, restrictive word). Then, what it seems like to me, Hinduism coming back and saying "No we're not, we are monotheists just you! See!" Or saying that Hinduism is amoral, and somehow morals have to be prove to be JUST LIKE THEIRS. I guess it comes from hundreds of years of colonialism, but seriously, they shouldn't have to prove ANYTHING.

    6. I'm highly syncretic. I have no problem seeing the similarities between gods and spirits of various cultures and recognising them as all being the same.

    In any case, I've probably insulted some of you, and for that I'm sorry. But these are the reasons I hold back. I also probably seem like to some of you some New Age hippie, I guarantee you I'm not (I don't sit around and complain about stuff, I believe in getting stuff DONE, lol).

    So if any of you can please tell me if and why I can still consider myself Hindu ad point me in the right direction, that would be really cool. Also, if you think that I am not and can point me in the direction of a spirituality that sounds like mine, that would be great as well.

    Thanks!


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    Re: Can I be Hindu?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    IMHO it is better to be the best Christian you can be then a ~convert~ and exercise hinduism poorly...


    The root of this idea is supported here; Kṛṣṇa-ji says it this way in the Bhāgavad gītā
    śreyān sva-dharmo viguṇaḥ
    para-dharmāt svanuṣṭ hitāt |
    sva-dharne nidhanaṁ sreyaḥ
    para dharmo bhayāvahaḥ ||

    Because one can perform it, one's own dharma, (though) of lesser merit, is better then the dharma of another. Better is death in one's own dharma; the dharma of another brings danger¹.

    The key word here is dharma¹ धर्म.

    praṇām

    references and words
    • translation offered - I have chosen the translation by Mahaṛṣi Mahesh Yogī that I find most insightful and accurate.
    • dharma धर्म - some definitons:
      • that which is established or firm , steadfast decree , statute;
      • ordinance , law virtue , morality , religion , religious merit , good works rightly , justly , according to the nature of anything.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. Re: Can I be Hindu?

    Yes but I already mentioned that my beliefs and way of life are pretty much antithetical to Christianity... i don't want to go back to that. So... that would make no sense...

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    Re: Can I be Hindu?

    Quote Originally Posted by sadhaka3 View Post
    Yes but I already mentioned that my beliefs and way of life are pretty much antithetical to Christianity... i don't want to go back to that. So... that would make no sense...
    Vannakkam Sadhaka: I really am not sure what to say. I personally know of no religion that condones numbers 1 to 4 on your list, inclusively, but especially 2 to 4. Christianity and others are is okay with #1. So it would appear to me that what you may be looking for is a non-religious path.

    Hindus tend to be more tolerant of what some of us would term adharmic behaviour, but that's just because we tend to see the bigger picture, and are less likely to see the world in black/white or good/evil dual ways. But tolerating of drinking, adultery, smoking dope, and such things doesn't mean we like it. If you look up tolerance, it actually just means 'allowing to exist, not acceptance, or support of.

    The Hindu path is one of a lot of self-discipline and self-control, so therefore, I really don't think it is conducive or anything close to what you're looking for.

    But best wishes on finding the eclectic mix that somehow suits you.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Can I be Hindu?

    YES.
    I don’t want you to give up on reading the hindu scripturesas of yet. Your personal habits are Tamasic alright but then as you gain insights into the core doctrinal construct, then gradually you will realize yourself that your cultural tenets seem less and less attractive to you. In Argentina, it appears the culture maybe more liberal and dare I say Tamasic, but then such life style is adopted by a few born hindus in mainly hindu lands as well. At the end of the day you will loose self respect and self esteem if you pursue the course too long..

    The sadhana should comprise of reading hindu literature on web, meditate and pray and then gradually wean off those qualities you think are not sathvik (eg., the entire list you presented above) , it is a process and yes it takes time. I don’t want you to go back to the same faith you tried and gave up; ‘cause it is not productive to repeat a failed experiment. If you don’t want to be an atheist then yes you can be a hindu. A hindu will remain a hindu only so long as he/she engages self in sadhana. Means one has to show some advancement in a given period of time, part of which consists (some) control over five senses. Namaste.

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    Re: Can I be Hindu?

    Namaste SAdhak,

    Quote Originally Posted by sadhaka3 View Post
    I know that this is a loaded question here, but here me out.

    For the last 3 years I've considered myself agnostic (never an atheist). I left religion for a variety of reasons, and mainly they have to do with religion's rejection of human nature, along with their greed. To clarify, I grew up Christian. I dabbled a bit as a teenager in Neo-pagan religion, but other than that I remained Christian. I was born into a Protestant family, as a teenager I converted to Catholicism (on my own) which was the religion of my father's family, and in my early 20's I became Greek Orthodox. Eventually being out in the world, my beliefs began to be shaped differently (I became more of a rationalist), and many of those beliefs came into stark contrast with Christianity. As every time I went to any liturgical service at any church, it seemed they constantly asked for more money, that's when I decided to cut them off completely.

    This leads me to where I am now. As an agnostic I never stopped believing that something was there, just don't know how to describe it. I've been interested in Hinduism before, and actually posted on here ages ago. No matter how much I study, takes tests, whatever, I sem to teeter-totter between my ambiguous agnosticism, Hinduism, Mahayana Buddhism, and Neo-Paganism. There are parts in all three that seem to contrast my feelings and beliefs, yet Hinduism is the religion that probably comes closest to me, most specifically Shaktism and Shaivism. Personally, I view the universe itself with it's underlying flow of primordial energy as God/dess itself. I don't believe it's pure good or pure evil, it just is. I feel that life and all that is around us is a Divine play, and people need to realise that it's all just going to fade away. That's not to say don't participate in it, just realise that it's finite, not real, and only that core essence that is the universe is.

    Now, there are things that hold me back from Hinduism. Things that I wont give up, and restrictions in general are a part of the reason I left religion to begin with.

    1. Eating meat. most specifically beef. I understand the concept of ahimsa, but also feel that if an animal is slaughter in a way that is honourable to it's life, giving it thanks, I see no problem, as other animals as well eat other animals. I refer specifically to beef because I'm Argentinian, and eating beef is part of my culture, and I wont give up my culture and who I am to join something. Can I cut don drastically on beef eating to the point where it's only once in a blue? Yes. Can I make sure that what I'm eating is organic and had a good life? Yes. But if I find myself in Argentinian and with family, I'm not going to say no. It's insulting. And as for eating other animals, the same applies. That also brings me to tamasic foods... garlic, onion, and mushrooms are my favourite veggies... I'm not going to cut them from my diet and really don't understant why they are so bad.

    2. I embrace human nature and all forms of sexuality and pleasure, and refuse to reject it. This is again a huge reason I left religion to begin with. I think it's fine to have sex inside and outside of marriage, without whomever you want, with as many people as you want. I feel that society has created such narrow restriction for the most human of acts. I'm NOT saying go wild though. There is a time and a place for everything in life, and things should be done in moderation.

    3. Liquor. I've been known to imbibe from time to time once in a blue and find nothing wrong with it. It's not all the time, but when I do I have fun with it. Again all things in moderation.

    4. I smoke cannabis. Every day. It helps me to relax, and, at times, quite frankly, to meditate and be closer to God/dess. Again, there is nothing wrong with it, and there are many, many accounts of not only Hindu ascetics smoking cannabis, but as the plant being Divine and akin to Shiva Himself.

    5. I'm a little urked at what seems to me (not to be offensive) to be Hinduism effort to somehow prove they are similar in likeness to Abrahamic religions. I don't know, you all most likely vehemently disagree with me on this, but hear me out. It bothers me that Christians and Muslims yell about workshipping "false gods" or being "polytheists" (a very narrow, restrictive word). Then, what it seems like to me, Hinduism coming back and saying "No we're not, we are monotheists just you! See!" Or saying that Hinduism is amoral, and somehow morals have to be prove to be JUST LIKE THEIRS. I guess it comes from hundreds of years of colonialism, but seriously, they shouldn't have to prove ANYTHING.

    6. I'm highly syncretic. I have no problem seeing the similarities between gods and spirits of various cultures and recognising them as all being the same.

    In any case, I've probably insulted some of you, and for that I'm sorry. But these are the reasons I hold back. I also probably seem like to some of you some New Age hippie, I guarantee you I'm not (I don't sit around and complain about stuff, I believe in getting stuff DONE, lol).

    So if any of you can please tell me if and why I can still consider myself Hindu ad point me in the right direction, that would be really cool. Also, if you think that I am not and can point me in the direction of a spirituality that sounds like mine, that would be great as well.

    Thanks!

    My suggestions are :

    a) You really don't need spirituality right now as you have very strong attachments to sensual pleasures and you have no intentions to bring them into control. Your spiritual journey can start when you get really bored with all these.

    b) If you are happy calling yourself a Hindu, let it be ... as there is no Pope or Mullah in SanAtan Dharma to decide on your behalf for the beliefs you want to hold.

    c) If you keep eating beef, making sexual relations outside marriage as much as you want, Hindus would prefer that you call yourself by any other name rather than Hindu. I don't say that some Hindus don't do it ... but they don't consider it 'good'.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Can I be Hindu?

    Namaste,

    There is nothing wrong with the term Hindu or Hinduism. With that said I wonder as to why you want to call yourself Hindu? The reason I wonder this is because I even wonder within myself. I do not use the term Hindu and quite frankly I doubt many Hindus would accept me. I am a German-Irish-Mexican. My skin is very white and I speak no other language than English. I have never really fit in with my 'own people' for lack of better words. The point I am trying to make is that we have to ask if our choices or decisions are being made to look a certain way to others or if what we are doing is our own seeking. When we go deeper into our way we can ask "Who is a Hindu". Not as an intellectual question but as a question we pose to ourselves. Is there a 'person' who is a Hindu within us? Where was it when we were in the womb?

    Eating meat is another controversial topic. I will leave that to others as I have nothing to really give concerning this topic. I am a meat eater.

    Alcohol is not my thing though I used to drink it. I just cannot handle it. Others may be able to use it in their Sadhana. It just is not for me.

    Cannabis I cannot argue with this. I devote my intake to Lord Shiva. No one can tell me other wise. Perhaps it is my ego or perhaps it is just the strong connection with Shiva I have with it. If you take it away I can still be close with Shiva. Either way, I am fine.

    As far as Hindus calling themselves monotheist, I do not find a problem with this. Sanatana Dharma transcends both Polytheism and Monotheism. Shiva is One manifesting in all things. I have no objections here as we can call it Polytheism, monotheism, monism, animism, all these terms are just pointing to something that is beyond terms.


    I wish you success on your journey by leave of Lord Ganapati

    Om

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    Re: Can I be Hindu?

    Quote Originally Posted by sadhaka3 View Post
    I know that this is a loaded question here, but here me out.

    For the last 3 years I've considered myself agnostic (never an atheist). I left religion for a variety of reasons, and mainly they have to do with religion's rejection of human nature, along with their greed. To clarify, I grew up Christian. I dabbled a bit as a teenager in Neo-pagan religion, but other than that I remained Christian. I was born into a Protestant family, as a teenager I converted to Catholicism (on my own) which was the religion of my father's family, and in my early 20's I became Greek Orthodox. Eventually being out in the world, my beliefs began to be shaped differently (I became more of a rationalist), and many of those beliefs came into stark contrast with Christianity. As every time I went to any liturgical service at any church, it seemed they constantly asked for more money, that's when I decided to cut them off completely.

    This leads me to where I am now. As an agnostic I never stopped believing that something was there, just don't know how to describe it. I've been interested in Hinduism before, and actually posted on here ages ago. No matter how much I study, takes tests, whatever, I sem to teeter-totter between my ambiguous agnosticism, Hinduism, Mahayana Buddhism, and Neo-Paganism. There are parts in all three that seem to contrast my feelings and beliefs, yet Hinduism is the religion that probably comes closest to me, most specifically Shaktism and Shaivism. Personally, I view the universe itself with it's underlying flow of primordial energy as God/dess itself. I don't believe it's pure good or pure evil, it just is. I feel that life and all that is around us is a Divine play, and people need to realise that it's all just going to fade away. That's not to say don't participate in it, just realise that it's finite, not real, and only that core essence that is the universe is.

    Now, there are things that hold me back from Hinduism. Things that I wont give up, and restrictions in general are a part of the reason I left religion to begin with.

    1. Eating meat. most specifically beef. I understand the concept of ahimsa, but also feel that if an animal is slaughter in a way that is honourable to it's life, giving it thanks, I see no problem, as other animals as well eat other animals. I refer specifically to beef because I'm Argentinian, and eating beef is part of my culture, and I wont give up my culture and who I am to join something. Can I cut don drastically on beef eating to the point where it's only once in a blue? Yes. Can I make sure that what I'm eating is organic and had a good life? Yes. But if I find myself in Argentinian and with family, I'm not going to say no. It's insulting. And as for eating other animals, the same applies. That also brings me to tamasic foods... garlic, onion, and mushrooms are my favourite veggies... I'm not going to cut them from my diet and really don't understant why they are so bad.
    Thanks sadhaka for bringing into fore the dilemas in life.

    Whatever you have described is nothing unusal and there are many in India and around being born Hindu, but having similar or more such habits. There is nothing to say that they are less hindu than others.

    People misinterpret hinduism as a strict disciplinary life style to be followed which goes by certain texts of the scriptures. But in fact hinduism is much greater than that and actually there is nothing which is out of bound for hinduism.

    Let me put it this way. I want to have the knowledge of relativity. That I can gain in 1 year or 100 years or even more - it depends how I go about it.

    Hinduism lays before us the journey of the MIND to a level of state whereby it retains the permanent state (does not get attached to bodies and thereby rebirths).

    To attain that there are certain best practices which help human beings achieve that state faster (it is only relative). These include ways to reduce desires, ego, lust, etc.

    The food and the actions play significant roles in creating the state of mind. Meat, alchohol, etc makes the mind more dynamic, which is not conducive to retain or gather knowledge. Wrong habits can only slow down the process. Harmful (harming others) habits can take one backward.
    In India 70%+ people take meat (may not be beef).

    Again scriptures only point out to best practices and does not say that non-adherants are non hindu.

    Quote Originally Posted by sadhaka3 View Post
    2. I embrace human nature and all forms of sexuality and pleasure, and refuse to reject it. This is again a huge reason I left religion to begin with. I think it's fine to have sex inside and outside of marriage, without whomever you want, with as many people as you want. I feel that society has created such narrow restriction for the most human of acts. I'm NOT saying go wild though. There is a time and a place for everything in life, and things should be done in moderation.
    Same here. We all are family people and sex is not outside hinduism. Rather in hinduism, sex is given more importance than many other religions. However the act of sex out of societal purpose and the attachment to sex or harming others sexually should be distinguished. Attachment (any) leads to distortion of mind and is not conducive for learning or gathering knowledge.


    Quote Originally Posted by sadhaka3 View Post
    3. Liquor. I've been known to imbibe from time to time once in a blue and find nothing wrong with it. It's not all the time, but when I do I have fun with it. Again all things in moderation.
    I would repeat the same as above. We should only be mindful that making the mind more introxicated, attached or distured will not help one gain knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by sadhaka3 View Post
    4. I smoke cannabis. Every day. It helps me to relax, and, at times, quite frankly, to meditate and be closer to God/dess. Again, there is nothing wrong with it, and there are many, many accounts of not only Hindu ascetics smoking cannabis, but as the plant being Divine and akin to Shiva Himself.
    Same as above. One word of caution though - taking alchohol after PhD and taking alchohol during primary school are different and should be distinguished.

    Quote Originally Posted by sadhaka3 View Post
    5. I'm a little urked at what seems to me (not to be offensive) to be Hinduism effort to somehow prove they are similar in likeness to Abrahamic religions. I don't know, you all most likely vehemently disagree with me on this, but hear me out. It bothers me that Christians and Muslims yell about workshipping "false gods" or being "polytheists" (a very narrow, restrictive word). Then, what it seems like to me, Hinduism coming back and saying "No we're not, we are monotheists just you! See!" Or saying that Hinduism is amoral, and somehow morals have to be prove to be JUST LIKE THEIRS. I guess it comes from hundreds of years of colonialism, but seriously, they shouldn't have to prove ANYTHING.
    Do not mind about others. If you want to know about hinduism let's not compare. Just learn. It is not preaching or believing here. It is learning a knowledge. It takes high level of mind preparation through practice, again and again learning, questioning, till one is convinced, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by sadhaka3 View Post
    6. I'm highly syncretic. I have no problem seeing the similarities between gods and spirits of various cultures and recognising them as all being the same.
    It is all same for the begining - all seemingly ritualistic but then as one goes along in the path, one finds the differences

    In any case, I've probably insulted some of you, and for that I'm sorry. But these are the reasons I hold back. I also probably seem like to some of you some New Age hippie, I guarantee you I'm not (I don't sit around and complain about stuff, I believe in getting stuff DONE, lol).

    So if any of you can please tell me if and why I can still consider myself Hindu ad point me in the right direction, that would be really cool. Also, if you think that I am not and can point me in the direction of a spirituality that sounds like mine, that would be great as well. [/quote]

    Insults are for people with egos. None here.

    Wish you a satisfied journey
    Last edited by kallol; 08 March 2012 at 10:25 AM.
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  9. #9

    Re: Can I be Hindu?

    Kallol,
    Great answer!

    I agree with Kallol in that Hinduism is meant for your own journey towards Moksha and also to help you live an ethical and non violent life.

    It seems to me that you understand what it's about from your description of what it means.

    1,
    Your first question about meat.
    I think this may be the only one that I disagree with you about.
    I think eating meat is extremely violent in our society where meat is mass produced in animal factories in horrendous conditions.
    It really is best not to eat it.
    That said, if you really cannot be without meat, definitively try to get meat from the most ethically raised animals that you possibly can.

    I'm vegetarian, but I don't know any Hindu's of Indian decent (in real life, not online) who are complete vegetarians. Most are only on holidays when they are fasting.

    2.
    Sex. There is nothing wrong with sex if it is consensual and honest and you use protection.
    If you want to hurry to reach Moksha then the process will go a little faster if you aren't. Sexual energy can slow down the process of Kundalini.
    But if you are not a monk, and you have not devoted this life to Self Realization then there is no hurry.
    Still if you have a daily meditation practice it is easy to get distracted if you have to many emotional things going on.

    Personally I'm doing both, it's a slow process, but i'm not in a rush. I meditate daily, and spend time at an Ashram. I'm also married and I have a life full of responsibilities, it's just life.

    3,
    Alcohol.
    Yes you can drink it, but that too slows down the process. It's really a choice.
    And again ethics, if you are responsible with it and don't hurt anyone else with irresponsible behavior then I see no problem with it.

    I drink too. Not a lot, but I have a small glass of wine with dinner everyday.
    Even that slows the process down a little bit, (at least it seems like that) but that's ok for me.

    4,
    I don't smoke, but I assume it would be the same for alcohol.

    5,No we have nothing to prove, but it can be hard not to when there are ignorant people who as you said scream about our False Gods.


    Maya

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    Re: Can I be Hindu?

    Dear Maya,

    Killing is generally wrong.

    Still we find wars in Ramayana, Mahabharata, etc.
    Then we also find Vishnu sending Narada to a butcher to get a particular spiritual knowledge.
    We also see Agni requesting Arjuna to ensure that animals do not escape as he ate khandav forest.

    By design we are omnivorous and are designed to survive without vegetables.

    Many top saints take non veg. So eating meat for filling stomach (it is our duty towards the body) is not a problem. It becomes a deterent when one gets attached to it.

    Killing (as a duty) for food and killing for hate and anger is different. Killing to uphold dharma in society in a war and killing for personal sake is different.

    Duty and attachement are two important words to be kept in mind for living in sansar. The first one does not add karmaphal, the second one does.
    Love and best wishes:hug:

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