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Thread: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

  1. #21
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    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    "Maya is function of the shape and attributes which the brahman manifests through. Brahman is the lowest common denominator of all. Just like gross matter (all types) is out of energy. Similarly all are out of brahman. "

    Namaste Kallol,will you elaborate the red lined meanings?

    Dear Anirvan,

    There is not much to explain on this. However I will try to elaborate.

    As brahman, the facts are beyond our limited perceptions. Say ultrasound waves - we do not perceive but the bats can perceive. So we (laymen) are oblivious of the existence and require additional tools to perceive that.

    Similarly there are others. Many of them we can perceive through tools. There are others, which we still cannot.

    Now we get interested and attached to something we know and perceive. Say I offer you "Ghaerebir". I am sure before accepting, you will ask "what is that ?" and "why is that ?" and "what does it do ?". So if it is unknown we do not have attachement. If I offer you a camera you will accept as it is known to you.

    So our desire and attachments are linked to something we know, something we perceive. Now our perceptions can only be limited to our senses - which brings in the shapes and attributes.

    The trasparent water - my eyes cannot see but the froth on the waves - I can see. Though the ingradients are same, the eye can perceive only within certain limits.

    Same is the brahman - manifesting and unmanifesting in cycles. Whatever is manifest - we are able to partially sense and our limitations of the desire and attachement are within that boundary.

    This is the playground of Maya. This is where we get stuck - it is the Urvashi and Menoka (symbolic).

    The lower is the knowledge more is the attachment towards matters which are more perceptible.

    The rest - because we cannont sense - remans elusive and beyond our knowledge and thus beyond desire and attachment. Though this is where the TRUTH lies, only the wise people move towards that higher plane of desire and then to desireless.


    Love and best wishes:hug:

  2. #22
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    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    I find it interesting that no-one has asked why māyā ? Why is it part of the experience ? That is, what role does it play ?

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #23
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    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    Namaste Anirvan,

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    I told above statement to point out the eternality of this game of creation.And definitely prakriti is inherent part of brahman even in 4th state,but since its not vibration state,so unmanifested.But its there like a dormant DNA.
    OK, I don't think we are talking very different.

    If we realize that fourth state is some permanent/eternal state,then the arguments is over.But problem is as long as you are in samadhi/turiya,its ok.But then why brahman has never remained in that state ever.why this eternal game is going on.
    You already answered it in the above para. MAyA is essential part of the Brahman & it is beginningless.

    Will you give your thought regarding status of brahman in turiya/nirguna state? is it in SAKSHI BHAVA(witness) to the leela of creation or some jada/empty state.
    Turiya is always present as the substratum in all the three states. Turiya doesn't convert to any of the three states. Turiya is the canvas on which the three states keep coming and going like cinema on a cinema-screen. Turiya is eternal witness to all the states. It is ShAntam (fully at peace) but it is never dead.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #24

    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    I find it interesting that no-one has asked why māyā ? Why is it part of the experience ? That is, what role does it play ?

    praṇām
    Namaste yajvan,

    What an excellent question; I am still pondering!

    I have thought that it might be so that the self can recognise the Self. But that is surly its self just mAyA.

    Could this be an effort to reproduce?

    Could this be part of an infinite need to be in continual motion, like the surface of a liquid bound by the confines of spacial laws and limits?

    The result of the motion of the spiral arm of the galaxy, a friction or movement in AkAsha; to make time.

    I should love to hear your wisdom, knowledge any thoughts on this matter ...

    praNAma

    mana

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    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    I find it interesting that no-one has asked why māyā ? Why is it part of the experience ? That is, what role does it play ?

    praṇām
    Thanks for posing the question,actually i wanted to a post answering this exactly this.

    "Sa maya palini-shaktih sristisamharkarini "!! (jnana sankalini tantra)

    The power of God engaged in the process of creating-sustaining the jagat is called Maya/prakriti.

    "Sa va etasya sangsrustvuh shaktis sadasadatmika !
    maya nama mahabhaga jayedam nirmame bibhuh "!! (bhagavatam 3/5/25)

    The meaning is same as above.

    "Matasyaam shaktyatmana pralaye sarvam jagat,srustow vyaktim yateeti maya "!!

    Ma = destruction/closing up ,YA= delimitation /induvidualization

    so the mahatattva who is maya ,is the power for Avidya in Delimitation and struction of the duality.

    Now I will discuss the exact role of Maya in this illusion/delusion.

    The major two asad nature of maya are ABARANA SHAKTI AND VIKSHEPA SHAKTI (perturbation" or "disturbance).

    Avarana shakti ( enveloping power)-= the power of enveloping jivatma with subtle body/ desire body/kamana maya sarira.Infact it is very earliest reason of creating jivatma.

    The ego enabled avidya always induces desire in jivatma.This very desire creates the subtle body/kamana maya sarira.This desire body is actually become the sukhma sarira of jiva.The prana sustaining this subtle body is DEHI/Jivatma. The physical body is the instrument of enjoyment/suffering of this jivatma. The subtle body act as prison of jivatma,and destruction of this body frees the jiva from sufferings.

    Chapter 3. Karma-yoga
    TEXT 38

    dhumenavriyate vahnir
    yathadarso malena ca
    yatholbenavrto garbhas
    tatha tenedam avrtam

    SYNONYMS

    dhumena--by smoke; avriyate--covered; vahnih--fire; yatha--just as; adarsah--mirror; malena--by dust; ca--also; yatha--just as; ulbena--by the womb; avrtah--is covered; garbhah--embryo; tatha--so; tena--by that lust; idam--this; avrtam--is covered.
    TRANSLATION

    As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb, similarly, the living entity is covered by different degrees of this lust.

    TEXT 39

    avrtam jnanam etena
    jnanino nitya-vairina
    kama-rupena kaunteya
    duspurenanalena ca

    SYNONYMS

    avrtam--covered; jnanam--pure consciousness; etena--by this; jnaninah--of the knower; nitya-vairina--eternal enemy; kama-rupena--in the form of lust; kaunteya--O son of Kunti; duspurena--never to be satisfied; analena--by the fire; ca--also.
    TRANSLATION

    Thus, a man's pure consciousness is covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which burns like fire.

    This envelope will diminish the sattvikansha of jiva.Under this asad kamanamayee avidya,jivatma posses EGO and think himself as the doer.The AVARANA detach the Jivatma from the all pervading Ishwar consciousness.This false EGO OF DOER-ship keeps the jivatma under wrap/cover from God.

    The FALSE VISION/PERCEPTION arise out of this avarana shakti,gives rise to VIKSHEPA SHAKTI.Vikshepa means perturbation or disturbances.This false perceptive knowledge projects jivatma"s own false perception on the objects and percieves this illusory world.Otherwise the the world is undifferentiated Brahman maya.

    There is a unique kind of relationship between perception of jiva and the objects of undifferentiated from brahman. According to that relationship,jiva perceive a perticular form.This is called ROOPA PARINAM OF MAYA.For example a beautiful lady attracta a man,not a male donkey as only a donkey can attract a male donkey.

    The forms of the universe is not created by Brahman,but its imagination of jivatma.Its like dreaming.The moment the dreams breaks,this false perceptive world dissapears at once.

    Below link clarifies extensively this vikshepa shakti.
    http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/light/light_09.html
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  6. #26
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    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    I find it interesting that no-one has asked why māyā ? Why is it part of the experience ? That is, what role does it play ?

    praṇām
    My take :

    1. Maya by itself is non-existent at the highest level as everything there is TRUTH - unmanifested and stable brahman.

    2. Maya's existence starts with the advent of the manifestation. It is the starting point of shape, size, attributes. The highest intensity is at the highest evolution level.

    3. Again maya is a product of mind - which works through bodies and the senses related to it. It recognises and appreciates only what it can perceive through these senses. The whole of today's science is proof of this. This has made people more matter focused and matter attached.

    4. So the maya is non existent at the highest level. At levels of wise people it is see through. As we go lower it becomes opaque.
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  7. #27
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    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    I find it interesting that no-one has asked why māyā ? Why is it part of the experience ? That is, what role does it play ?

    Many have posted some relevent and excellent insights on this question... it is good we ponder this.

    Without getting too technical let me offer this point of view which rests in the mālinīvijayottaratantra (1.24-1.26) . Being, has an urge to experience. This requires something to experience. It is for this that the vehicle of māyā creates diversity of the universe... items of experience. It is this urge to seek experience that drives this diversity of this universe.
    We are fortunate as we are 1 of the 7 agents for this experience to occur (some call pramātṛ or saptapramātṛ for all 7 agents). This suggests it is not just 'us' that is experiencing the universe , tattva's and māyā , but others also that are not part of the human condition.

    Now that said, it is the ~general~ conclusion that māyā is in some way bad. In ignorance this could be the case, yet in enlightenment it is the joy of diversity seen though the eyes of unity. The snake is revealed as only rope.


    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 16 March 2012 at 01:22 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #28
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    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ o

    Now that said, it is the ~general~ conclusion that māyā is in some way bad. In ignorance this could be the case, yet in enlightenment it is the joy of diversity seen though the eyes of unity. The snake is revealed as only rope.

    praṇām
    Dear Memebrs,

    This beautiful statement quoted above on the Vision of Maya cannot be bettered, as the Lord himself emphasizes the grandness of Unitive Yogic Reasoning where intuition comes into play, rather than remaining merely logical in a factual manner.


    nāsato vidyate bhāvo : nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ : ubhayor api dṛṣṭo 'ntas :tv anayos tattva-darśibhiḥ

    The unReal cannot manifest itself, the Real never ceases to manifest either; the inherent truth of these Two has thus been perceived by the seers of Absolute Reality. BG 2:16



    An existence has to exist in an existent. An existent doesnt not exist without an existence.

    The world has no existence apart from the One Reality, and this Reality cannot exist other than in the form of this world. The state of being inseparable is the secret signified by the words anayoḥ ubhayoḥ api antaḥ the inherent truth of the TWO

    Inseparably united are Sat and Bhava, Dehin and Dehi, Gold and Ornaments and the like....

    Yajvan Wrote:
    Māyā is the illusion that the Infinite can be measured out -or-restrained. It is the idea that this Infinite Being that we experience as the universe ( and what it contains) is made of parts, finite items, zillions of them, but still finite , within boundaries. It is the boundless measured into the boundaries , this is the illusion of avidya ( ignorance).

    Exactly; Infinite Gold has been measured into finite Ornaments, actually exist is Gold alone, Ornaments are mere mental images superimposed on the Sat-Gold. At the same time the Gold has to exist in some or the other form.

    As in the case of Gold and Ornaments, Gold and Ornament are inseparably one and need no uniting nor merging into. What separate them as Gold and Ornament is Maya alone, the erroneous enigmatic element in the emergence of the many from the One.

    Those who are awake to this hidden aspect of teaching are to be considered as the seers of Absolute Reality. Love


    Pondering Recommended

  9. #29

    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    The first manifestation is called Mahatattva,2nd ahamtattva,3rd senses & paramanu(atom) and 4th jagat.
    Hello Anirvan, here you've said that the 3rd manifestation are the senses. Whose senses? The jagat has yet to be manifested and without the jagat there can be no jivas. So whose senses are we talking about?

    This prakriti is according to naming two types.1-Avidya,2 Maya.
    Combined with the reflection of sat-cit-anand brahman,in the perfect balanced state of sattva-rajah-tamah guna,the PRAKRITI acquire two forms named AVIDYA and MAYA...
    Again prakriti,maya,avidya and Ignorance all four belongs to one definition and same.
    In the last sentence you've said four, when there are actually three (Prakriti, maya and avidya).
    You've called ignorance the fourth, when in fact avidya IS ignorance.


    In Satyaloka,the
    formless mahajyoti swaroop parambrahma embeds himself within his own-mahajyotiswaroopa maya like a Peas seeds and remains in his sat state.
    As in a peas seed, two half stays united along with the germ bud wrapped with the skin, similarly the prakriti-purusha are two half of the seeds ,remains along with the brahma-chaitanya(germ bud) and the skin as Maya.

    The prakrita-purusha/siva-shakti burst open from the skin of maya and create the Universe/jiva-jagat.


    Here you've said that Nirakara brahman dwells in satyaloka. But as per Shankara's teachings (advaita) Brahman is infinite, omnipresent and all pervasive. It cannot dwell in a particular loka called satyaloka or brahmaloka. Can you explain to me what is meant by satyaloka here.

    Ahamkar is two types.ONE is effected from PARAHANTA-form-sat who is none other than PRAKRITI(unmanifest). one is effected from MAHATTVA.

    Whose Ahamkar/ego are we talking about?
    And what is Parahanta, Mahat-Tattva, and Sat-Asatmika shakti?
    You haven't given a clear description of these things. It would be great if you do. Thanks.


    Last edited by Red_Drag0n; 22 December 2018 at 01:46 AM.

  10. #30

    Re: Who is MAYA OR PRAKRITI & its attributes?

    Quote Originally Posted by brahman View Post
    Dear Memebrs,

    This beautiful statement quoted above on the �Vision of Maya� cannot be bettered, as the Lord himself emphasizes the grandness of �Unitive Yogic Reasoning� where intuition comes into play, rather than remaining merely logical in a factual manner.


    nāsato vidyate bhāvo : nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ : ubhayor api dṛṣṭo 'ntas :tv anayos tattva-darśibhiḥ

    The unReal cannot manifest itself, the Real never ceases to manifest either; the inherent truth of these Two has thus been perceived by the seers of Absolute Reality. BG 2:16



    An existence has to exist in an existent. An existent doesn�t not exist without an existence.

    The world has no existence apart from the One Reality, and this Reality cannot exist other than in the form of this world. The state of being inseparable is the secret signified by the words � anayoḥ ubhayoḥ api antaḥ � the inherent truth of the TWO�

    Inseparably united are Sat and Bhava, Dehin and Dehi, Gold and Ornaments and the like....

    Yajvan Wrote:

    Exactly; Infinite Gold has been measured into finite Ornaments, actually exist is Gold alone, Ornaments are mere mental images superimposed on the Sat-Gold. At the same time the Gold has to exist in some or the other form.

    As in the case of Gold and Ornaments, Gold and Ornament are inseparably one and need no uniting nor merging into. What separate them as Gold and Ornament is Maya alone, the erroneous enigmatic element in the emergence of the many from the One.

    Those who are awake to this hidden aspect of teaching are to be considered as the seers of Absolute Reality. Love


    Pondering Recommended
    namaste
    wonderful
    and to my view maya is delusion , I mean in medical term illusion in physical form is called delusion and illusion is moha of course .
    yada te moha-kalilam .. Gita says when the mire of moha means maya .
    only then one see god .. sada pasyanti suryah vishnoh yat Paramam padam .
    coming to ch 2 of Gita only one can amratvaya kalpate whose buddhih samadhau vidyate .
    and all this is possible when moha the attribute of maya disappears .
    jai Sri Krsna

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