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Thread: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

  1. #11
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    Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    Namaste,
    I am of the firm belief that dharma is something we can align ourselves with, practice. Yet it was here before we arrived on this earth and will be here when this earth is long gone.
    I see that the single generation Hindus look at our dharma lot differently than we, who inherited it through successive generations and would like to protect and pass on hopefully to our descendents for many generations to come. For us, it is not a 'One Generation' garment. Others may think of it as a 'single use, throw away' item not worthy of care or protection, as it will get discarded after one generation any way. When we have a mindset that is in the 'use and discard' mode, why would we want to take ownership of it? It was here.... it will be here.... maybe.... maybe not.....who cares!

    I am of the firm belief....
    that is, my mind is made up, I will not compromise, don't try to tell me anything else, I will simply discard your mumbo jumbo. I have been to the top of the mountain and I have seen the truth.....

    Under those conditions, what is the point of having a conversation?
    It is either my way or the highway.

    .... are you of the opinion that dharma depends on human intervention
    Islam seems to have done a good job of showing that human intervention (through use of sword) can change the color of over 1 billion. The proud Zoroastrians of yesterday, through human intervention, became the newly minted Shia's and would die for this new virus that they have been infected with.

    Pranam.

  2. Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    Quote Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva View Post
    I don't think this post is quite accurate. For as many quotes as you can find in the quran that seem to indicate tolerance - even of a very selective sort such as that limited to 'people of the book,' you can find more which exactly support the attitude taken by this nutjob.
    Have you ever read the Qur'an? The Qur'an allows violence, but only in very very specific circumstances. I could easily pick and choose verses from Vedic literature and talk about how Hinduism in horrible because of the caste system, and how unfair it is. But I try to avoid generalizing over a billion people at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva View Post
    In order to be a grand mufti, he must have outstanding knowledge of the Quran
    Not true. To be a grand mufti, you have to be wealthy, wahhabi, and well connected. Related to the royal family doesn't hurt either.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    If all Muslims interpret Q'uran as you do, this world would have been free from so much bloodshed of the innocents ! May your tribe grow and prosper !
    OM
    Insh'Allah (god willing). If you actually look throughout history, you will find that 99% of all violence and hatred promoted by "islam" is actually promoted by Sunni extremists that wish to crush all opposition, so that they don't have to deal with other people pointing out facts. Try debating with a wahhabi, it is not possible. You can argue that the sky is blue, but they will find some way to argue that it is not because the Qur'an says so (even though it doesn't . . . )

  3. #13
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    Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    Namaste Mumineen,

    You present interesting viewpoint. I have read Qu'ran though I can't claim to be an authority in that scripture. The scripture gives scope of interpretation the way you do.

    The problem is that Shias, Sufis etc. are themselves under attack from the hardliner Sunnis and we don't really know how long you people would survive ! So, who is goling to listen to your voice in the Muslim world ? I have been in a Muslim country with many of Muslim friends for quite some time. They are basically good people but the problem with Islam (Wahabi's version) is that you are not allowed to question the Mullah's interpretation of Q'uran. How many have the guts to disobey their fatwas and stay alive ?

    On one hand they say that all Muslims are brothers and on the other hand they indulge in worst crime against the Shias, Sufis, the Bahais. Afghanistan where the Sufi tradition flourished is left with hardly any visible Sufis !

    I don't know how this bloodshed in the name of religion and God is going to stop !

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Mu'mineen View Post
    Insh'Allah (god willing).
    An iranian person that I worked with several years ago, was of the opinion that the Arabs came and looted them, raped their women and converted them to Islam. As such, he did not identify himself as a muslim and wore an ancient Zoroastrian symbol around his neck. What binds you to this so called religion that was forced upon your ancestors by the marauding holy warriors from mecca? Why is this alla, alla, your middle name?

    Pranam.
    -

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    Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    An iranian person that I worked with several years ago, was of the opinion that the Arabs came and looted them, raped their women and converted them to Islam. As such, he did not identify himself as a muslim and wore an ancient Zoroastrian symbol around his neck. What binds you to this so called religion that was forced upon your ancestors by the marauding holy warriors from mecca? Why is this alla, alla, your middle name?
    Is this the right way to talk to visitor from other religion ? What has gone wrong with us ? We have forgotten our cherished tradition of giving due respect to people who visit us !

    I can say that people in the Muslim country where I stayed for a few years were much better human beings than us. In spite of the fact that their religion is so much against idol-worship etc. ... when you visit them they make you feel that you are so special to them.

    Believer, you can do better than this.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Is this the right way to talk to visitor from other religion ? What has gone wrong with us ? We have forgotten our cherished tradition of giving due respect to people who visit us !

    I can say that people in the Muslim country where I stayed for a few years were much better human beings than us. In spite of the fact that their religion is so much against idol-worship etc. ... when you visit them they make you feel that you are so special to them.

    Believer, you can do better than this.

    OM
    +1

    Added to that, the humblest person I have met in my life happen to be an old muslim gentleman. It would be my loss if I shun his acquaintance due to his Islamic appearance.

  7. Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    The problem is that Shias, Sufis etc. are themselves under attack from the hardliner Sunnis and we don't really know how long you people would survive ! So, who is goling to listen to your voice in the Muslim world?
    Ah, yes. This is very true. A lot of countries have tried passing laws that declare Shi'as and others to be kaffir (unbelievers - non muslims) which would strip them of all rights. This hasn't happened, as far as I'm aware, but it's effectively in place. It was in either Pakistan or Saudi Arabia (I can't remember) there is one area that is majority Shi'a while the rest is majority Sunni. Instead of granting that one area state-hood as with all of the other areas of the country, they instead made it a "territory" so that the population has no voting rights. I'm not saying that Shi'a countries are perfect, far from it, but they don't try to strip fellow Muslims of their voting rights, as far as I am aware.

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    An iranian person that I worked with several years ago, was of the opinion that the Arabs came and looted them, raped their women and converted them to Islam. As such, he did not identify himself as a muslim and wore an ancient Zoroastrian symbol around his neck. What binds you to this so called religion that was forced upon your ancestors by the marauding holy warriors from mecca? Why is this alla, alla, your middle name?
    I am not Iranian, so it is not "my ancestors". I disagree, however. Yes, Arabs did do that and it was in the name of Islam, but it wasn't how you're thinking it happened. During the reign of Uthman, Muawiya, and Yazid (Sunni caliphs - the first is accepted as "rightly guided" according to Sunnis, the latter two are just good leaders according to them), there was a strong push to keep Islam "pure", or in other words, Arab. The Ahlul Bayt (descendants of Muhammad) and their followers, however, disagreed. The Shi'atul Ali (faction of Ali - they form today's Shi'a) believed, as was taught by Muhammad, that all human beings were equal, and the only thing that could put one above the other was their deeds - good or bad (I'll provide a quote from Muhammad at the bottom of this post). So the Shi'a, being persecuted by the Sunni majority, shifted their "headquarters" per se to Najaf, Iraq. The movement then spread to Iran, where the Persians were quick to accept Shia Islam. It was only later when the Sunni's conquered the whole of the middle east did such atrocities occur. I'm not saying that it was only the Sunnis, and Shi'as have done some bad things, but it was mostly the fault of the Sunnis. I am a Muslim because I believe it to be the truth, not because it was forced on my "ancestors". I am white, not Iranian. I was born and raised in the United States.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Is this the right way to talk to visitor from other religion ? What has gone wrong with us ? We have forgotten our cherished tradition of giving due respect to people who visit us !

    I can say that people in the Muslim country where I stayed for a few years were much better human beings than us. In spite of the fact that their religion is so much against idol-worship etc. ... when you visit them they make you feel that you are so special to them.
    Thank you for your kind defense. I do not think that all Muslims are better than all Hindus. Ghandi was a much better man than Osama bin Laden. But I really appreciate your acknowledgement that we're not all savages Thank you very much.

  8. Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    I apologize, I forgot to include that quote from Muhammad I mentioned in my last post about racial equality. I find it really pathetic that even though this is in the Sunni hadith (traditions and sayings) books, they did not follow it right after Muhammad died. It should have been fresh in their minds.

    "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action." Sahih (authentic) Bukhari & Muslim (two collections of hadiths, it appears in both of them)

  9. #19
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    Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    I am of the firm belief....
    Yes, I am of the firm belief... Where in this day and age it is considered revolutionary to the the truth.

    praām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #20

    Re: "Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

    हरिः ओम्


    Namaste,


    How does one stop the warrior class when if the Brahman have not the experience of second birth; knowledge is transient and
    thus not always successfully passed by blood lineage.
    Supposing that it is the
    Kshatriyas, who assume this role of Brahman when dharma has dried crumbled; how does one convince
    them that this is so? The Rudra Howl, one can feel the pain in their hearts; dripping from their words, the venom in their speech.

    What should one do when confronted by ones own family and lineage; on the opposing side of the battle field?

    This battle is raging within.
    Religion is the illusion of mAyA, mātṝkās game; the same black thoughts of the exact same demons,
    from both sides; drive this battle from within.


    Do you not see this?


    praṇāma

    mana


    ॐ नमः शिवाय
    Aum Namaḥ Śivāya
    Last edited by Mana; 15 June 2012 at 02:28 AM.
    8i8

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