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Thread: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    Thanks to everyone , there are several good posts that have enabled me to learn something new. Love you all.

    Seeker

  2. #12
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    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    Vannakkam: Really, I have very little to add. Many who have spoken of the Self say it is not describable, beyond words, beyond time, beyond space.

    I truly believe that there are some who have for whatever reason, and many come to mind, deluded themselves, or been deluded into believing they are Self-realized when indeed they are not. From some sort of inner insight this has come, and they have been able to convey this to others, but whatever inner states they did reach was not the Self. That does not mean to suggest they aren't able to share some knowledge of the path, or a portion of the path.

    So it is tricky at best to even speak of it. This, on my part is just regurgitation, not from any true experiential knowledge, and is in part why I hesitate to speak at all. Still it is good to have some sense of where we are all headed. (Or so I have heard.)

    Aum Namasivaya

  3. #13
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    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    Namaste Eastern Mind,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    I truly believe that there are some who have for whatever reason, and many come to mind, deluded themselves, or been deluded into believing they are Self-realized when indeed they are not. From some sort of inner insight this has come, and they have been able to convey this to others, but whatever inner states they did reach was not the Self.
    That is so true. Your post reminds me of a forum I used to visit a few years back. There, nearly 50 % of active forum members believed that they were enlightened ... nowhere less than Buddha. So, I felt like a poor wretched soul there, son of lessor God who couldn't achieve what every other guy claimed to achieve so easily ! However, the display of egoism and arrogance in their posts suggested differently. Some believed that "enlightenment" was just an illusion (it is true but at a very high level i.e. from Turiya alone) and so there was nothing to do but simply claim that you were enlightened/awakened and you were ! It was so easy !! Unfortunately, I could never be convinced that I was enlightened & so I parted my ways.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #14
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    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    Vannakkam Devotee: Good to know somebody agrees sometimes, and that I am not alone in the non-enlightened circles. This embodied jiva is definitely not enlightened.

    Aum Namasivaya

  5. #15

    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    Namaste All,

    I'm currently reading, "Kundalini The Evolutionary Energy in Man" by Gopi Krishna.

    This excellent book give a very close personnel view of one man's experience of the arousing of spiritual vision. From my own experience of the changes of conciousness brought about by life's path.

    It resonates with me, as sounding very similar to my own experiences with highly elated manic episodes, followed by raging depression.

    I should like to state that; knowledge of the scriptures and of prana shakti, Kashmir shaivism and Jyotish; all these sciences have enlightened me; in that I no longer feel quite so alone or fearful of that which my western dharma would otherwise have me believe is; Bi-polarity (was schizophrenia for a while), recently updated to hypersensitivity ...

    Thank you satya sanAtana dharma for saving me from these Western Doctors and their material understanding of life!

    Am I enlightened? Well, the rolling sea of mood changes, of birth's and death's of the ego; has apparently stopped.

    I am learning how to focus my mind to study and, there is a weight gone from my shoulders. I now have a language to learn which contains the words to express my experiences.

    Enlightened? No not yet, but I pray; on the right path to true happiness.

    In many ways I believe that enlightenment would be so much easier for those in a tribe, that is, if it is a tribe which lives in balance with nature and its Self; If the dharma is simple yet sound.
    On the other hand, and in another tribe, one may have been quickly beheaded by a narcissistic leader for failing to provide them with accurate insight, if the dharma was that way inclined ...

    Only thoughts, anyhow; Gopi Krishna's book is well worth a read as an introduction ...


    praNAma

    mana
    Last edited by Mana; 31 March 2012 at 11:57 AM.

  6. #16
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    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    Devotee Ji & Eastern Mind Ji,

    Thanks for your postings.

    Both of you have enunciated something that is has been in my thought. How do I know the enlightened being and how do I benefit from their association?

    My little readings have led me to believe that the SELF realized souls tune out of this world , and it is ‘others’ who pull them out and advertise about them. They seldom involve themselves in pomp & have extremely humble outlook (Ramana Maharishi used to get up at 2 am to start preparing meals for ashram visitors, there are many such examples). Due to this very nature, it is difficult to know the existence of such beings. This is where I believe scriptures and sadhanas might help – i.e in identifying the true masters.

    Which leads me to believe that if I am honest in my search and indulge myself in meditation , one such being will be revealed to me. This is my belief . As always , I am willing to listen to this forum members esteemed opinions.

  7. #17
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    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    My submission :

    1. Self realised persons (different levels of understanding) are generally like normal people in daily lives - only interactions with them will allow one to understand the depth of their knowledge.

    2. Self realizations happens through several knowldge and assimilation levels through single or many lives. People may be born in different places and in different environment. Their past lives and karmas radiate through their karmas and their ability to pull people without malice towards none. Even entire life can be part of assimilation and niskama karmas - those can be in tribal region, as butcher, as priest, etc etc.

    3. The TRUTH does not depend on hinduism to propagate. It is natural and universal. Hinduism only helps recognise that path and enables the mind to focus better. For wise people, it is not a bar.
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  8. #18
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    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    There, nearly 50 % of active forum members believed that they were enlightened ...
    The ~ test~ is quite simple. Is one awake within all the time ? 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year ? It does not flicker, but is constant. Does one associate with the silence within ? This is the reference point for all experience for the one that is awake.

    Yet one must realize this awakening begins with Self and then expands to include all of creation. It starts in 'me' then expands to every fiber and part of creation. It is like tuning in a high fidelity radio... As one comes closer to the perfect frequency ( the vibration of all) the sound improves, the clarity improves; the symphony can be heard better-and-better, until the station is perfectly pin-pointed and the fidelity is stainless, non-waivering.

    Like that, coming to fullness has been called ~ adjustment~ . Getting to that infinite frequency or spanda of this whole creation.

    Yet I must agree - this state of Being is beyond mood making. Some like to think this level of Being is a mental construct, a mood to be in, to pretend... this is all just the an extention of moha. This is why the wise inform us , it is knowlege and experience that delivers you to the door of fullness. It is that state in which the yogin digests the the whole world in his/her Self.

    praṇām
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #19

    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    Namaste All

    Sorry Guy's, but I felt inspired, I hope you find no Vogon influence!

    To those with perfect posture ...

    Is this awake state dreaming; perhaps the shadow of the valley of death?
    A dream in which words flow most effortlessly; their energy abound.
    The wheels of life always moving, accelerating; alas, with attention we hear their sound.
    That divine light of Mothers nature might ease them, with out fear, nor pain, nor frown.
    That might a sight to behold, the energy to love; create to make abound.
    Who found the love divine and the means to remember, that brings no karmic pain.
    To rise of height and change of size, yet not be dashed upon the floor.
    This most certainly requires an anchor; a stead fast umbilical chord!


    All the time! Perfect balance; harmony ...

    Worth striving for, on every level!


    praNAma

    mana
    Last edited by Mana; 31 March 2012 at 01:16 PM.

  10. #20

    Re: Is realizing SELF restricted to a subset?

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    To be enable for self-realization,one need not born with some specific set of requirements ...like to born as good brahmin,pious environment,availability of scripture,Guru and above all conducive spiritual environment,though this is very much prevalent in most of known spiritually advanced saint/seers.
    I agree that all of these requirements listed are not necessary to enable one for self-realization, but there is one thing that is essential on your list and that is the bona fide Guru.

    Self realization is to understand and behave according to our true identity which is das = servant. This realization this is only realizable through following and naturally serving one who is realized. This knowledge is not something that can come without this relationship as the false ego remains in control.

    In Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krsna tells Arjuna and us to Surrender to Him and serve Him. He is Guru and Arjuna is His das = servant. The message of all scripture is only this - there has to be a Guru/disciple relationship. The conciousness of one who is realized is that they exist only for the pleasure of their beloved.

    Of course, the bona fide Guru these days is almost impossible to find and only available to those who sincerely want it, or that the Isvara has great mercy upon!

    The ocean of material life cannot be navigated without an expert captain, and certainly not alone......

    Jai Sri Gurave Namaha

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