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Thread: the path of tolerance...

  1. #1
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    the path of tolerance...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    I look at various posts in this meta-folder and see many taking umbrage
    with other faiths. I ask myself how does this strengthen my own faith ? I do not come to an answer.

    I see many take issue and find fault with other religions and their points of view. I ask myself how does this bring resolve to the path I am on ? I do not come up with an answer.


    I see many discounting other views as being fanatical, or that a spiritual adept may not have even existed on this good earth. I ask myself how does this unfold more of the goodness that lies within me ? I find no answer.


    I look to other folders and find people within sanātana dharma argue that their ideal of the Supreme is the right one , is of the highest rank, and that other views must be ~demi-gods~. I ask myself again, how will this help me expand the Supreme (anuttara) in me , and I am left speechless.


    There is no doubt that corruption and grief comes not from religion but from the ignorance lying within the holder of religion. This is the core of all unhappiness on this earth.




    "That which we call the Hindu religion is really the eternal religion, because it is the universal religion which embraces all others.
    If a religion is not universal, it cannot be eternal. A narrow religion, a sectarian religion, an exclusive religion can live only for a limited time
    and a limited purpose " .... Śrī Aurobindo (some write Śrī Ôrobindo) 30th of May 1909.



    "Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshiping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience."
    George Washington, 1st President of the United States, May 1789


    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
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    Re: the path of tolerance...

    Vannakkam: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tolerance

    If someone asks me, "Do you believe in Christ?" I simply tell them the truth. "No, I don't." or "I don't know." Am I supposed to lie? I don't see how disagreeing is intolerance. I'm certainly not saying, "and neither should you."

    If someone says to me "Hinduism is but for fools!", should I react and start arguing? I don't think so. It's a free country after all.

    Aum Namasivaya

  3. #3
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    Re: the path of tolerance...

    Namaste,
    I ask myself how does this strengthen my own faith ? I do not come to an answer.
    I ask myself how does this bring resolve to the path I am on ? I do not come up with an answer.
    I ask myself how does this unfold more of the goodness that lies within me ? I find no answer.
    I ask myself again, how will this help me expand the Supreme (anuttara) in me , and I am left speechless.
    Under similar circumstances, I would quit asking myself and seek the advice of a more knowledgeable person.

    Pranam.

    PS
    "Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshiping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience."
    George Washington, 1st President of the United States, May 1789
    I would balance that out with some of (the US Presidential aspirant) Rick Santorum's quotes, who would like to BBQ my rear end for his family dinner, because I am not a Xitian.
    -
    Last edited by Believer; 31 March 2012 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Added the PS

  4. #4

    Re: the path of tolerance...

    Namaste,

    Thank you yajvan, for inspiring these thoughts.

    Just as with mathematical proof; it is the proof that there is no answer, which are the hardest to ascertain, see Fermat's last theorem!

    How curious a thing it is, human intelligence, conciousness; it has evidently come forth in waves, waves of understanding and knowledge. As we, as a people; realise that that which we are, yet this it would seem that like most good ideas, this happens collectively or simultaneously, in different places at the same or similar times, why?

    This is the Fractal nature of conciousness, nature as she unfolds before us and within us. The word is transient, as we utter our truths they ring true to our brethren to those close to us, yet to those of another creed they are frail replicas of their own truths, why?

    There is something much bigger than us and our words, which flows through our very being, this ebb this tide that drives us, is visible, prana to those who empathise. Yet blinded by our words; those who carry the feudal banner of faith help knowledge traverse the void of time. That words of imagery might help some empathetic soul, in the future torment of an unbalanced world. These Arrows traverse time.

    Might not we find amongst the guise of all these words; that every message be the same? Just as every living man woman and child, are one. Our intellect has grown collectively, still evolving as we think?

    Is this not, that which differentiates us from other animals?

    Not to realise this aspect of nature; must therefore be, evidence of pride ...



    Is this not a step in the wrong direction?


    praNAma

    mana
    Last edited by Mana; 01 April 2012 at 02:14 AM.

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    Re: the path of tolerance...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    If someone asks me, "Do you believe in Christ?" I simply tell them the truth. "No, I don't." or "I don't know." Am I supposed to lie? I don't see how disagreeing is intolerance. I'm certainly not saying, "and neither should you."
    Yes, I concur as your response is done with the absence of malice. That is the difference as I see it.

    It boils down to simple respect... If one said to me, how can you even think kṛṣṇa existed, it is just a story. This argument for me is moot. It is the śāstra-s that supply my support, but how could I communicate this to this person. It would be fruitless and un-needed.

    Like that, I may not believe in Christ, yet I do not go out of my way to negate his existence. ( not inferring you have said or impled that).
    How can I ask anyone to respect the views I hold if I do not do the same. That is my definition ( in this case) for respect and tolerance.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #6
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    Re: the path of tolerance...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    I would balance that out with some of (the US Presidential aspirant) Rick Santorum's quotes, who would like to BBQ my rear end for his family dinner, because I am not a Xitian.
    I can tell you without reservation that:
    1. Mr. Santorum is not even close to the ideals President Washington offered and acted upon.
    2. His view of the world is incongruent with the populous of the USA and therefore Mr. Santorum will not be America's next President.


    Regarding the following :
    Under similar circumstances, I would quit asking myself and seek the advice of a more knowledgeable person
    Let me offer you the opportunity to pose the questions you would ask ( a more knowledgable person) so I can better undertand your POV and perhaps gain insight into your opinions and values.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #7
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    Re: the path of tolerance...

    Yajvan Ji,

    Thanks for the wisdom in your post.

    I am in this for very a selfish & personal reason , which is attainment of moksha. Since I know that I am a long way from attaining this, I try not to find fault with other persons or other religions. It makes my journey that much longer when I spend my energy on unnecessary emotions.

    Moreover all the scripts I have read so far are unequivocal that strong passions (this includes love for ones religion or hate for other religions) pose an impediment to my goal. I am very grateful for the wisdom that came out of sages whom we label as hindus , but those same sages would view a every person stripped of all his/her labels.

    You confirm my views with your own words and wisdom.

  8. #8

    Re: the path of tolerance...

    Beloved wise Beings. I come before you, as one who has lived my life with these other religions.

    But, also come from a place where words are my passion. This word...tolerance could imply we have this path which "tolerates" another religion.

    You have no idea, how many xtians would become offended by this word being used in reference to them. Recently i was reading a blog upon a religious website written by an xtian which the title was exactly this word and how offensive it was.

    How about just leaving them in peace? This is another option.

    Not tolerating...just accepting everyone is in this game at a different place and moving on. Nothing to tolerate, unless you happen to have a son dating a girl who's family is converting hundreds of people every day in the East. That takes some whole hearted tongue biting tolerance.

    This other option is one of peaceful avoidance.

    Peace to just allow this machine to do what it will...allow the drama to play out ...

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    I look at various posts in this meta-folder and see many taking umbrage
    with other faiths. I ask myself how does this strengthen my own faith ? I do not come to an answer.




    I see many take issue and find fault with other religions and their points of view. I ask myself how does this bring resolve to the path I am on ? I do not come up with an answer.
    I have your answer to some of these questions.

    Neti Neti.

    Beloved Yajvan, not everyone is in the place you are, one of a higher wisdom. Only by differentiating...by crude evaluation, can some of us decide which way to turn?

    It is as if you are in a stream...there are many foot holds for you to place your foot. The wise will make a judgement upon which seems the best choice. Just as these primary evaluations of other paths and other religious beliefs are so crucial to others making progress.

    ----------------------------------------------------------


    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    "That which we call the Hindu religion is really the eternal religion, because it is the universal religion which embraces all others.
    If a religion is not universal, it cannot be eternal. A narrow religion, a sectarian religion, an exclusive religion can live only for a limited time
    and a limited purpose " .... Śrī Aurobindo (some write Śrī Ôrobindo) 30th of May 1909.




    This quote, unfortunately describe the very same religions you would seek for all to have tolerance. None of these other religions readily accept other paths. Only a brave few within them will say this...but yet are chastised by their own bretheren.

    One of my dearest friends was told, by her pastor to delete me upon FB because i was a idolater. When she refused, he told her in front of her entire congregation that she was being tempted by the devil and was failing.

    My friendship brought so much heart break and grief, i wound up shutting down my facebook. I just could not see her treated so poorly on my behalf.

    So some of these religions are not eternal. Okay. Not that it matters, there are always more springing up to take their place. This is how it has to be...we all have to have those footholds to move forward. Some are not as straight forward as others.

    Good for all of us, that SD is....it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    It boils down to simple respect... If one said to me, how can you even think kṛṣṇa existed, it is just a story. This argument for me is moot. It is the śāstra-s that supply my support, but how could I communicate this to this person. It would be fruitless and un-needed.

    Like that, I may not believe in Christ, yet I do not go out of my way to negate his existence. ( not inferring you have said or impled that).
    How can I ask anyone to respect the views I hold if I do not do the same. That is my definition ( in this case) for respect and tolerance.

    praṇām

    This word, respect...another tricky word choice.

    True respect is earned...it takes time. We can give others courtesy...kindness..and compassion.


    But do we think xtians would ever truly respect SD and a Hindu's choice of religion?

    Why would we want/need this respect any way? Would we go to a strangers home and say...what color should my carpet be? Then, why would we want any opinion upon anything as important as our religion?

    Why not just leave them alone to work their path out without interference?

    It is my feeling that we should leave them in peace(when we can)...and hopefully get the same peace and space back.




    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    I can tell you without reservation that:
    1. Mr. Santorum is not even close to the ideals President Washington offered and acted upon.
    2. His view of the world is incongruent with the populous of the USA and therefore Mr. Santorum will not be America's next President.

    George Bush...was elected without the popular vote.



    This world is crazy, it's full of confusion...and chaos. It's not meant to be orderly...or even just.

    My path is not of tolerance.

    It is of least impact. Meaning, that I Love them...even the ones who call me idolater. That happens daily here.

    I Love them.

    But, I don't need their respect...if I did...what a fruitless waste this would be. Because would be like waiting for the sun to turn into ice cream.

    Lately, i have been considering them less and less...leaving them to their happy world and moving on. Which is why my absence in this folder.

    However, this is a very important thread...one which brings about an important conversation about our place here and what we should be doing or not doing to others.

    Even this path, this one of tolerance, is yours to take, Beloved.

    Without one moment of ill will from this fool.

    If this works for you,then awesome. But, as with everything else in this realm. The paths are so dynamically ours...and ours alone.

    The possibilities are endless.

  9. #9

    Re: the path of tolerance...

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan
    Like that, I may not believe in Christ, yet I do not go out of my way to negate his existence. ( not inferring you have said or impled that).

    How can I ask anyone to respect the views I hold if I do not do the same. That is my definition ( in this case) for respect and tolerance.
    Dear Yajvan:

    This is truly a wise man speaking. You truly are blessed with "wisdom".

    This world is full of those people who, for whatever reason, on the one hand refuse to believe Jesus ever existed, yet on the other hand, live comfortably in this world that universally adopted a calendar system based on the existence of Jesus. When confronted with this argument, they quietly withdraw with a self assurance that it must be a western conspiracy.

    Notwithstanding such arguments, for many "the Jesus of history" and "the Christ of faith" remain one and the same.

    Blessings,

  10. #10
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    Re: the path of tolerance...

    Namaste Yajvan,

    Please take a deep breath, and do it one more time. Just chill.

    Your sentences started with 'I ask myself' and ended with 'I have no answer'. So, I was pulling your leg about not asking yourself and rather consulting someone who knows; with a smiley at the end. Have some sense of humor. Being a man of religion does not mean you have to be dead serious all the time. Don't look for trouble where none exists. If you don't want any humorous comments, or for that matter any comments that do not jive with your posts, then maybe you ought to just keep your thoughts to yourself and not post them.

    Few months back I made a post about Bobby Jindal and you had strong counter opinions about that. I chose to ignore and not escalate. Sometimes self discipline helps. I will write this episode off as someone having a bad day, and not respond, should you choose to keep it brewing.

    About George Washington's quote, this is 2012; there is lot more pluralism now than at the time of the founding of a (unofficially) Xitian nation. If something were to happen to Mitt, Rick will be the Republican nominee, and with the bad economy, adverse race relations (http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/...-teens-killing) and religious ferver sweeping the South, I will not write him off. I too have my finger on the pulse of the populace that you speak of. People stupid enough to offer Sarah Palin (who would have been a heartbeat away from a fossil - John McCain - to become the President) as the VP candidate, are perfectly capable of doing many other stupid things. God works in strange ways. No one thought that America will have a black President in this century, but it happened. Only HE knows, not you, not I. I don't have a Verizon FIOS connection to God, so I will desist from making statements like, 'I can tell you without reservation......'

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 01 April 2012 at 02:07 AM.

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