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Thread: Was there a really wick or evil person that became a saint or enlightened?

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    Was there a really wick or evil person that became a saint or enlightened?

    Was there a really evil person that became a enlightened, Swami or a Guru or what ever? Thanks.

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    Re: Was there a really wick or evil person that became a saint or enlightened?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralProjectee View Post
    Was there a really evil person that became a enlightened, Swami or a Guru or what ever? Thanks.
    What do you mean by "a really evil person" ? I don't know what is there in your mind. It is difficult to see things in the right perspective unless you drop your Abrahimic preconceived notions.

    I shall give you some examples :

    1. Once there was a cruel roadside robber who used to rob/kill the roadside travellers for his living and for supporting his family. His name was "RatnAkar". Once he met a great saint (Celestial saint, NArad) and on his advice he changed his ways. He became a great saint and was later on known as "Maharishi VAlmiki" who wrote VAlmiki RAmAyaNa.

    2. AngulimAl (One who wears necklace of human fingers) was very cruel killer who had vowed to kill 1 thousand persons. He used to kill people wherever he met and after killing them, cut his victim's one finger and add it to his necklace made of such fingers. Once he met Lord Buddha and he was changed. He became one of his trusted disciples and became a great Buddhist Saint.

    Later, Angulimala came across a young woman undergoing a difficult labor. He went to the Buddha and asked him what he could do to ease her pain. The Buddha told Angulimala to go to the woman and say:
    'Sister, since I was born I do not recall intentionally killing a living being. Through this truth may there be wellbeing for you, wellbeing for your fetus.'
    Angulimala pointed out that it would be untrue for him to say this. The Buddha offered this revised stanza:
    'Sister, since I was born with the noble birth (became a monk), I do not recall intentionally killing a living being. Through this truth may there be wellbeing for you, wellbeing for your fetus.' The Buddha was making a word-play here on the word "born" to support Angulimala, who was suffering from severe remorse which was badly obstructing his meditation, of his renewed commitment to harmlessness since becoming a monk.
    After Angulimala delivered this benediction, the woman safely gave birth to her child. This verse, commonly called the Angulimala paritta, continues to be recited at the blessings of houses or pregnant women in Theravada countries.

    PS : Both are historic events.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #3

    Re: Was there a really wick or evil person that became a saint or enlightened?

    I realize that Hinduism does not ascribe to the idea of evil in the traditional sense but says it's a transient state of delusion or something.

    Peace!

  4. #4

    Re: Was there a really wick or evil person that became a saint or enlightened?

    Namaste AstralProjectee,

    I would simply like to add that even this English word "wicked" derives from "twisted", which of course can be compared to "crooked"...
    all manner of thoughts, words, and deeds which are considered immoral, unethical, unacceptable-
    are described within many cultures, by language that points to a state of error, of deviation from what is true.
    One of the biggest struggles for Abrahamic theologists and thinkers is this "question of evil"..
    for it is well-nigh impossible to reconcile their idea of an transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent Creator,
    with the supposed existence of a Devil. I mentioned theodicy in a post on a different thread recently, this is somewhat related.

    Devotee is quite right, that this mindset, these preconcieved notions, must be dropped,
    before these questions about wickedness or evil can be approached or considered fruitfully.

    Perhaps it may be helpful to frame the issue in the following way:
    "evil", as described or seen from the perspective of the average person, is always personal.
    I do not mean this in the sense of one's opinions being "personal", but in this way-
    thoughts, words, and deeds all require "person"-age, an agent, a sentient source.

    Consider also: "evil" is personal, because it is directed; the "evil" thought, word, or deed's result is harm.
    "Evil" is harm done in the absence of ignorance.

    As a young child, I had to learn that angrily kicking a rock that I had just stubbed my toe on,
    did not teach the rock anything, or make my toe feel better...
    the rock went right on being a rock,
    and of course, my toe hurt twice as much.

    So it has been that my understanding of "evil" has changed over time,
    and I am and always will still be learning...
    Sanatana Dharma redefines the term "lifelong education"

    (I apologize for another poorly assembled novel of a reply,
    and thank all of HDF for your continued forbearance.)

    JAI MATA DI
    || जय माता की ||

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