Renunciation

[Amala]

Namaste,

I'm not sure where this thread belongs, so I rely on the mods to move it, if necessary.

I am very interested in others' experiences of this path - however gentle and relatively small one's movement is.

I feel my mind has been in this since childhood. While an adventurous sort, I never felt really attached or reliant on these things... people and situations always coming and going with little pull on me. Many times I've gotten rid of almost every belonging... so easy to let go... Only recently have I also felt the desire to not be in any intimate relationship. I'm talking about complete celibacy. While men are constantly knocking on my door wondering if since I've been without a man for 5 years if now this one or that one might be the one for me. Few can understand that I'm already in love -- with God. I changed my Facebook relationship status to "In a relationship" because that is how I feel. I want no one distracting me from it. ...simply not interested.

I also feel very unattached to flavourful food or decorative clothing/jewelry. I can see what others admire and I can admire workmanship, but I don't need them - they aren't a part of me.

Another part of renunciation in my mind is that of living closer to nature without a car or kitchen gadgets and the like. Everyone is so baffled by my not owning a cell phone. lol

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on it... I have much, much more to say about it, but I wondered about others' experiences. I don't care what books or swamis say about it so much... I'm more interested in people's personal sense of it who tend in that direction themselves.

Thanks!

:0)

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Amala: I think this trend goes beyond Hinduism. Some people have minimalism as part of their personality. My dad was like that. Three pair of pants, maybe 3 shirts, all plain, 1 winter jacket, 1 summer jacket, one ball cap. His house (he lived about 10 years beyond my Mother, and when they sold the family farm, my brother built him what he wanted on the new acreage) was a bedroom, a tiny kitchen, and a sitting space. He did have a TV, but no phone of his own, just an extension line from my brother's. Dishes were 4 plates, 4 cups, a set of 4 ... one cooking pot, 1 frying pan, a small fridge, no wall pictures, a simple couch. He did have a half-ton.

I'm like him as well, but with a family and a spouse who differs a bit, I'm not yet that extreme. If put in his circumstance, I would be. I don't have a cell phone.

On the opposite end of the spectrum are hoarders.

So I'm not sure if it has to do with Hinduism and renunciation at all. Certainly there is an idea within Hinduism not to exploit the planet, or be wasteful of resources.

Aum Namasivaya

[Amala]

Namaste EM,

That sounds peaceful... at least potentially so. I'm not sure that minimalism is the same as renunciation, though. In fact, on reflection, I must say I think though they may appear similar, they are very different.

I do agree that Hinduism hasn't cornered the market on renunciation, but I really don't want this to be a comparative thread.

Vannakkam Amala: I think this trend goes beyond Hinduism. Some people have minimalism as part of their personality. My dad was like that. Three pair of pants, maybe 3 shirts, all plain, 1 winter jacket, 1 summer jacket, one ball cap. His house (he lived about 10 years beyond my Mother, and when they sold the family farm, my brother built him what he wanted on the new acreage) was a bedroom, a tiny kitchen, and a sitting space. He did have a TV, but no phone of his own, just an extension line from my brother's. Dishes were 4 plates, 4 cups, a set of 4 ... one cooking pot, 1 frying pan, a small fridge, no wall pictures, a simple couch. He did have a half-ton.

I'm like him as well, but with a family and a spouse who differs a bit, I'm not yet that extreme. If put in his circumstance, I would be. I don't have a cell phone.

On the opposite end of the spectrum are hoarders.

So I'm not sure if it has to do with Hinduism and renunciation at all. Certainly there is an idea within Hinduism not to exploit the planet, or be wasteful of resources.

Aum Namasivaya

[John]

I have similar tendencies, and one that does who also has their obligations freed up, so to say, is fortunate. I still must handle the fruits of acting on desire and attachment earlier, though I have optimism for spiritual work.

As is said, when young and have the strength, we are too caught up for spiritual practice, and when older and finally have the wisdom, we no longer have the strength.

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste EM,

I do agree that Hinduism hasn't cornered the market on renunciation, but I really don't want this to be a comparative thread.

Vannakkam: Yes. Since I know full lifetime renunciates, and other than the robes, maybe a mala, they really do have nothing. There is also a ton of mental renunciation as well. That kind of renunciation is 'extreme' by most standards. I think of myself more as a minimalist, certainly nothing close to a renunciate, in any traditional sense.

Of course, as with everything else in Hinduism, the idea or definitions of renunciation vary widely.

Aum Namasivaya

[Amala]

Namaste,

Well, I do hope to hear from those who practice renunciation. ...whether just a matter of observing ekādshīs or further. I'm not concerned with whether or not one thinks of him/herself as a renunciate. It can be, as I said, the most delicate of offerings...

I do believe that one cannot separate the mental renuncation out... at least that's how it is for me. My renunciation is full of love of God.... a sacred sense of absolute humility and devotion... it is not simply doing without.

Respectfully...

Vannakkam: Yes. Since I know full lifetime renunciates, and other than the robes, maybe a mala, they really do have nothing. There is also a ton of mental renunciation as well. That kind of renunciation is 'extreme' by most standards. I think of myself more as a minimalist, certainly nothing close to a renunciate, in any traditional sense.

Of course, as with everything else in Hinduism, the idea or definitions of renunciation vary widely.

Aum Namasivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

I'm not concerned with whether or not one thinks of him/herself as a renunciate. It can be, as I said, the most delicate of offerings...

The tapas¹ of renunciation is of great interest to many. This notion of renunciation some call out 'neti-neti' . This is from na-iti . This na = not and iti ; in the brāhmaṇas¹ 'iti' is often equivalent to 'as you know'. Hence na-iti is 'not as you know, not as you perceive'. This is saying you are not what you see. What is being renounced is the false knowledge of what here and now really is.


Now this renunciation ~typically~ is accompanied/groomed with the idea of detachment over time. The common word used for detachment is vairāgya and we find this in patañjali’s yogadarśana ( yoga sūtra's) :

dṛṣṭānuśravikaviṣayavitṛṣṇasya vaśīkārasaṃjñā vairāgyam || 15

Let's see how this word aligns with renunciation. Vairāgyam is defined as aversion , indifference to worldly objects and to life i.e. not this , not this ( neti neti ). It is not defined as 'detachment' , yet this idea does come up in the progression to the full blossoming of vairāgya.
The word closest to detachment is vyatireka and is defined as distinction, seperation, difference and we find it in this progression ( to vairāgya) I have suggested.
If we look at this vairāgya by some of its roots¹ , it is that heroic movement away from those things that bind, abondoning those things of the world, that are inimical (adverse in tendency or effect).

The wise say there is a progression to this state . Here we have the 4 steps (pada):

• yatamāna - yata = restrained + māna = pride, arrogance. Hence we can see the constraint
  of the small self, the self-centeredness one may have. Now there are some that suggests this is the restraint of sensuous enjoyments.
• vyatireka - seperation, distinction, difference. This occurs when yatamāna begins to find firm footing in one's daily life. Some may call this detachment, but note it is not the final destination.
• ekaendriya - this is defined as having but one organ of sense. This has several meanings.
  It suggests that all the organs of sense are subdued/managed accordingly. Yet what is that one ~organ~ that remains intact? It is said the mind remains.
• vaśīkāra - is the making of power and control - one now has contol power over the senses. We see this in the 15th sūtra patañjali-ji offers: dṛṣṭānuśravikaviṣayavitṛṣṇasya vaśīkārasaṃjñā vairāgyam || 15

It is these four steps that lead to the 5th vairāgya , that heroic movement to the aversion , indifference to worldly objects and to life. You see this just does not happen, but is the march ( pada) to this condition. It is from this foundation that one is able to successfully renounce.

praṇām

words

• tapas - is from 'tapa' , heating up; tapas is observances, an approach ; tapasya
• brāhmaṇas - we find this in the bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad ( some write bṛhadaraṇyakopaniṣad ), mūrta-amūrta brāhmaṇa ( form and formless).
• roots found in vairāgyam : vaira + ag + ya
  • vaira takes on two ideas :
    • hostile, iminical, revengeful
    • heroism, prowess
  • ag - to move tortuiously
  • ya also takes on few meanings:
    
    • union ( as to bring the terms above together)
    • restraining, abondoning
    • rooted in yā means a goer or mover

[Amala]

Namaste Yajvan,

From one saṃskṛtacātra to another, thank you very much. :-)

Hari Om
हरि: ॐ

:-)