Anger

[devotee]

Namaste EM,

Recently, I have been working on "how to manage disturbance arising in mind". After a lot of watching over the rising of thoughts, their patterns and our getting involved into the thinking process, I have drawn some conclusions for myself (I don't claim these to be the Truth) and it is helping. I would like to share it with you ;

a) I as Consciousness and my body-mind-ego are two different entities. It pays to keep visualising oneself as Consciousness distinct from this body-mind-ego.

Actually, we are told by this world that we are this body. It is not natural to identify ourselves with our body. If you try to visualise yourself what you really are then you stop at a point where only awareness is and that is different from this body. For identifying yourself with your body you have to try it consciously by imposing your "self" over the image of your body.

b) All emotions and disturbances arising in our mind are nothing but different types of thoughts. Anger too is a type of thought/mind-wave giving rise to some physio-psychic changes in our status.

c) Anger/any disturbance arises in us due to special conditioning of the individualised Consciousness that we are. The individualised Consciousness has learnt to generate a mind-wave known as angry in specific situations. It is not natural. Why ? if it were been natural, everyone of us would have reacted to a particular situation in similar fashion (as the pure consciousness is same which is the essence of all of us). However, we all know that everyone reacts to a particular situation in a different manner. So, it can't be natural but acquired.

d) The argument in c) tells us that we must unlearn (reacting in a particular way in a particular situation) reacting to remove the conditioning to bring it in perfect control or to acceptable limits.

e) Now the question is how to unlearn what we have learnt over many lifetimes ? So, let's first find out the triggers :

i) Non-fulfillment of any desire causes anger. The desire can be for satisfying hunger, being respected or obeyed, for satisfying sexual urges, for a company for sharing our sorrows and pleasures, for justice, for doing something good to people who are suffering etc. etc.

So, we must identify the desires to which we are strongly attached. These attachments are the seeds of angers/disturbances. These attachments can be very very strong and depending upon their intensity they can bring forth various thoughts within us in varying intensities. It is also not necessary that you have to consciously get involved to make a thought arise in you. It can happen even without any attempt to consciously get involved and even while you are making all possible efforts to resist arising of a particular thought in you. Even if you know that a particular thought is wrong and can only harm you, it arises spontaneously due to strong conditioning of the Consciousness with that attachment. The Conditioned Consciousness has got used to generate a particular mind-wave as soon as a particular type of situation arises.

ii) Branding oneself as weak, or sinner or similar meaning adjectives doesn't help. We are fully powerful to overcome the force of attraction of desires. The first thing that we must develop is the practice of watching the arising of thoughts with or without a particular trigger :

Does it start after getting consciously involved or spontaneously just coming into contact/vicinity of the "object" causing the disturbance ?

Just watch the arising of the thought within your mind ... it is arising in the Conditioned Consciousness due to past conditioning ... you are not a party to this process. This "watching" of the arising of thoughts can be fun and it also gives us the power over the arising of the thoughts. Slowly the arising gets reduced in intensity as it doesn't get the required "feed" due to your being uninvolved and becomes weaker and weaker and comes into control.

This is just theory and I still have a long way to go to master all arising in my minds. I am struggling on the way and trying to find out my way.

If it helps anyone, it would be a big bonus which is unintended.

OM

[nirotu]

Namaste EM,

Recently, I have been working on "how to manage disturbance arising in mind". After a lot of watching over the rising of thoughts, their patterns and our getting involved into the thinking process, I have drawn some conclusions for myself (I don't claim these to be the Truth) and it is helping. I would like to share it with you ;

a) I as Consciousness and my body-mind-ego are two different entities. It pays to keep visualising oneself as Consciousness distinct from this body-mind-ego.

Actually, we are told by this world that we are this body. It is not natural to identify ourselves with our body. If you try to visualise yourself what you really are then you stop at a point where only awareness is and that is different from this body. For identifying yourself with your body you have to try it consciously by imposing your "self" over the image of your body.

b) All emotions and disturbances arising in our mind are nothing but different types of thoughts. Anger too is a type of thought/mind-wave giving rise to some physio-psychic changes in our status.

c) Anger/any disturbance arises in us due to special conditioning of the individualised Consciousness that we are. The individualised Consciousness has learnt to generate a mind-wave known as angry in specific situations. It is not natural. Why ? if it were been natural, everyone of us would have reacted to a particular situation in similar fashion (as the pure consciousness is same which is the essence of all of us). However, we all know that everyone reacts to a particular situation in a different manner. So, it can't be natural but acquired.

d) The argument in c) tells us that we must unlearn (reacting in a particular way in a particular situation) reacting to remove the conditioning to bring it in perfect control or to acceptable limits.

e) Now the question is how to unlearn what we have learnt over many lifetimes ? So, let's first find out the triggers :

i) Non-fulfillment of any desire causes anger. The desire can be for satisfying hunger, being respected or obeyed, for satisfying sexual urges, for a company for sharing our sorrows and pleasures, for justice, for doing something good to people who are suffering etc. etc.

So, we must identify the desires to which we are strongly attached. These attachments are the seeds of angers/disturbances. These attachments can be very very strong and depending upon their intensity they can bring forth various thoughts within us in varying intensities. It is also not necessary that you have to consciously get involved to make a thought arise in you. It can happen even without any attempt to consciously get involved and even while you are making all possible efforts to resist arising of a particular thought in you. Even if you know that a particular thought is wrong and can only harm you, it arises spontaneously due to strong conditioning of the Consciousness with that attachment. The Conditioned Consciousness has got used to generate a particular mind-wave as soon as a particular type of situation arises.

ii) Branding oneself as weak, or sinner or similar meaning adjectives doesn't help. We are fully powerful to overcome the force of attraction of desires. The first thing that we must develop is the practice of watching the arising of thoughts with or without a particular trigger :

Does it start after getting consciously involved or spontaneously just coming into contact/vicinity of the "object" causing the disturbance ?

Just watch the arising of the thought within your mind ... it is arising in the Conditioned Consciousness due to past conditioning ... you are not a party to this process. This "watching" of the arising of thoughts can be fun and it also gives us the power over the arising of the thoughts. Slowly the arising gets reduced in intensity as it doesn't get the required "feed" due to your being uninvolved and becomes weaker and weaker and comes into control.

This is just theory and I still have a long way to go to master all arising in my minds. I am struggling on the way and trying to find out my way.

If it helps anyone, it would be a big bonus which is unintended.

OM

Dear Devotee:

Excellent post!

I will agree with you and EM that with our Sadhana or Spiritual maturity, we can identify trigger points as when it is about to occur. Mark of a spiritual person is that he is able to subdue those thoughts that arise and take action (it is quite possible with such a person he never has these thoughts to begin with!). That is why we see a yogi with a demeanor that reflects perfect calm in the midst of chaos!

Thank you both for an interesting discussion!

Blessings,

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Devotee: Your words echo my understanding, from my Guru's teachings. He called the consciousness awareness, and all the states of mind lay waiting as places awareness could move into. Then we use will, as the driver of the car, to consciously move awareness from one area of the mind to another, purposefully directing our thoughts. This ability to direct awareness increases as the soul matures. So people with no will are free roamers in all the states of mind.

Interesting indeed that you were able to conclude these things on your own. To me it shows the value of Hinduism, and its insights into mind's nature.

(nirotu ... FYI, When I said 'within the context of Hinduism, or not' the not I meant was psychology, or mental studies, not from the context of another faith that is irrelevant to these forums.

I have no need or desire to debate with you the nature of God. If you want that debate please go start a thread on it elsewhere. )

My thoughts on anger being justifiable is 'Never'. But by this I mean real anger, not fake anger. I used fake anger (higher volume for example) just a sense of authority, all the time when teaching. But it was just some acting on my part.

Real anger, although it happens even to the best of controlled souls is an area of mind best avoided entirely because of karmic consequence, breaking of ahimsa, and more. Just how to avoid it is another idea altogether. I think an intentional walk away from the scene helps, and this is the will acting to do that. Here on HDF, for example, might it not be wise to wait 30 minutes intentionally before responding to a post that upsets you?

Aum Namasivaya

[Leena]

Namaste, EM.

I often ponder about anger as well, as it seems that everyone in my town is angry about something. Being raised by angry parents tends to rub off on the offspring, at least in did in my case. After recognising the anger within myself, I wondered how to overcome it and came up with a way similar to that of which Devotee suggested. It doesn't work all of the time (I blame female hormones in the cases it doesn't ), but I'm not nearly as angry as I used to be as a child/teenager.

I think it's easier to see anger in others than in yourself because it's difficult for most to look themselves from another's perspective. In order to do that, one has to be completely unbiased, honest, and lose the ego, and there's not many people who can do that. Once the ego is dropped, I believe one could see it more honestly.

The biggest cause of negative anger, IMO, is ego. Once ego is dropped, it's hard to be angry at anything. However, ego could result in positve anger that leads to protests for humanity and such, so maybe ego isn't so bad.

Leena

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Leena: Thanks for the wise comments. I do ponder how much of it is related to learned behaviour as well. One teacher colleague was always saying, "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree."

But how to 'unlearn' is the dilemma. I know with me personally, it sometimes took a very hard lesson before I'd get it through the thick head. But what you say regarding ego is true to me as well.

I'm not aware of many strategies one can take to attempt to get another person to see the damage their anger might be inflicting, not only on others, but via karma, on themselves. What is there to say to a person like that?

"Hey Buddy, I think you're an angry person," probably just makes the person angrier.

As for the hormones alluded to, most married men get that one, although I do wish that a wise elder like my parents may have told me about that one a bit earlier in life, rather than leaving it for me to figure out for myself. Another factor along the same lines is definitely lack of sleep.

Aum Namasivaya

[ShivaFan]

Actually, I do not become angry except when I feel I am observing something cruel or extremely stupid and I have no means to stop it circumstantially or conveniently, and generally these tend to be on a much larger setting rather than personal. For example, Muslim terrorism makes me angry, when such evil kills others such as blowing up a bomb in a Hindu temple, or killing animals senselessly such as when Mugavi was shotting down elephants from a helicopter in Africa. Or when other devotees are targetted due to stupidity such as when some Sikhs were attacked by stupid people who thought they were Muslim, which happened just after 911. Child molesters make me angry. These are examples, and typically the root of my anger is I want it to stop but there is no ready or immediate way ... I become angry, and it feels that it comes from my heart then hits my brain. But soon I try and think of some crafty or intelligent response.

[Mana]

Namaste

Yes Leena you are wise to note that ego is maintained with anger, a testament that challenges an egos right to its perception of its self; will often provoke a violent reaction, much like prodding a snake with a stick.

I think that we can assume that anger turned on its head is fear, in the case of the ego; fear of loss, loss of the metaphorical higher ground .

EM, I think that we must shine light upon reality and let the beholder see for them selves; this only when we are in a good firm posture, any attempt to call a pot a black will often provoke anger!

Brian those cases that you site are all normal reactions, but still with that said, the most effective weapon of the martial artist; is in directing and channelling this energy and not becoming angry, so our reaction may heavily depend upon intent?
When we are angry due to past karma, deep saMskAra, in a more permanent way; this, is a terrible thing.

Lenna brings up a great point in that a whole community can become angry, or aggressive thus being gentile becomes abnormal; this is adharma at its worst!

Evolution in progress; stressed frightened mothers, feel safe only with aggressive men, and give birth to children who are effectively angry by nature; it is worth noting that anger and aggression can be at its worst when it is psychological ...

Peace!

praNAma

mana

[Seeker123]

1) Is it really all that harmful?
2) Where is it in the mind, in consciousness?
3) What are some causes, or the root cause?
4) How does dharma fall into the equation?
5) Is there more latent anger in some cultures than in others? How about ages, or genders?
6) Do different societies deal with it differently?
7) How subjective is it? Is it easier to see in others than in yourself? Do you excuse yourself but not others?
8) Are there any circumstances when its truly justified?

Anger is definitely harmful. It arises in the mind when desire is frustrated. The main reason why it is bad is that it can lead to delusion and potentially to adharmic action. Lack of anger leads to a quieter, focused mind which can meditate better and understand Gnana better which can help attain Moksha. This does not mean that one cannot use anger beneficially to inculcate better behavior in kids etc. There is it controlled and there is no hatred.

However, the Christian theology differs in the sense that the three aspects are three modes of His activity (one essence) and not as three distinct minds or centers of consciousness.

Blessings,

Ref:
Gita (Chap III)
Taittiriya Upanishad
S.Radhakrishan- Indian Philosophy/Indian Religious thoughts
T. Aquinas

You quote Radharishnan initially but then conclude Siva, Vishnu, Brahma are three distinct minds! Remember Radhakrishnan's quote It is the One viewed as threefold”.

[rog]

Namaste, EM.

I often ponder about anger as well...............

Once the ego is dropped, I believe one could see it more honestly.

The biggest cause of negative anger, IMO, is ego. Once ego is dropped, it's hard to be angry at anything. However, ego could result in positve anger that leads to protests for humanity and such, so maybe ego isn't so bad.

Leena

Hello Leela and all,

I am very new to being a Hindu but I have been looking at my anger. My biggest problem is not carrying anger as I feel that even before I was a Hindu I was good at letting it go and feeling forgiveness but I have always been short tempered and easy to irritate.

I agree with all you said but 'positive anger' is an interesting concept. What I realised from the Hindu advice was that anger takes your consciousness beneath even the higher worldly aspects of humanity such as logic and reason. I know this to be true from 'losing it' countless times

I was discussing this with a non-hindu friend who has a good heart. He was very angry about how his adult daughter is being treated by her boyfriend. He was very protective of her and defended his anger as 'righteous'.
I explained what I have learned and I said that his observations about the man's behaviour are valid but that his anger was a selfish indulgence. He refused this until I used a scenario I read.

If you think of his behaviour as endangering her happiness it is no different to a river endangering her safety if she fell in. Who is best placed to take the right action to save her, a person who is thinking clearly or a person who has lost his head?

By being angry at the man he was wallowing in his own feelings and in no place to help her. - He has now borrowed my copy of Bhagavad Gita.

[Leena]

Vannakkam Leena: Thanks for the wise comments. I do ponder how much of it is related to learned behaviour as well. One teacher colleague was always saying, "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree."

But how to 'unlearn' is the dilemma. I'm not aware of many strategies one can take to attempt to get another person to see the damage their anger might be inflicting, not only on others, but via karma, on themselves. What is there to say to a person like that?

"Hey Buddy, I think you're an angry person," probably just makes the person angrier.

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste EM. You are welcome. I agree with Mana that they have to see their anger in themselves before it can be helped. If you tell them that they are angry or ask them about it, they could take it the wrong way. There's nothing you can do for a person if they can't see past their own darkness.

Leena