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Thread: Brahman is all the above?

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    Question Brahman is all the above?

    Ok as a true Hindu one will know that it is truly a monotheistic set of theological and philosophical set of teachings. The supreme deity or "Brahman" as one may say is in reality the only true god and all deva and devi are just representations of this. Coming form a strict monotheistic background i find it best to focus on the one supreme being. But my question is that would one consider Yahweh, Allah, Izanagi, Zeus, Odin, Chronos, Baha, Krishna, Huwa, and any god you can think under the sun (if not the sun itself) just cultural representation of Brahman? So as a Hindu would it be wrong to call Brahman, Yahweh or Allah or simply God?
    [CENTER] "Although the effulgence of the moon is brilliant initially at night, in the daytime it fades away. Similarly, although the lotus is beautiful during the daytime, at night it closes. But, O My friend, the face of My most dear Srimati Radharani is always bright and beautiful, both day and night. Therefore, to what can Her face be compared?" Vidagdha Madhava 5:20

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    Re: Brahman is all the above?

    Quote Originally Posted by cuddledkitty View Post
    Coming form a strict monotheistic background...
    Hello cuddledkitty:

    My 2 paises.

    It is actually wrong to consider Islam a "strict monotheistic" religion. When analyzed further, the amount of shirk in Islam is fairly high. For, to be a Muslim, you need to recite the Shahadah - "La Ilaha Il Allah...". As you will notice, the Shahadah is incomplete without mentioning "Mohammed Rasool Allah". That is Shirk. [Muslims will not admit this, but one cannot say "La Ilaha Il Allah" alone without mentioning Mohammed in the same breath as Allah and that is shirk]

    Next, let us come to idol worship. In my experience, Muslims like to accuse Hindus of "idol worship". When pointed out that bowing down to the Kaaba 5 times a day is also a form of "idol worship", Muslims become angry! Then when asked to define idol and then define idol worship in a fashion that would exclude bowing down to Kaaba 5 times a day, they cannot!

    Third, the very fact that Allah's words are limited to the Quran is another form of idol worship. In fact, you will notice that Muslims are the most violent when someone burns the Quran or makes fun of Mohammed. In my experience, Muslims are ok with atheists [those who deny the existence of God] - they think this is a common burden facing all theists. But whenever someone like Ali Sina or Robert Spencer or Dawid Wood questions the character of Mohammed, they become extremely angry! They seem to have more concern for Mohammed than Allah. Shirk!

    Fourthly, to be a Muslim, it is not enough you have a vague belief that some God exists. But more specifically, the entire Quran/hadiths have to be taken literally. That is, you HAVE to believe in the existence of arch-angels, like Jebriel, etc. You HAVE to believe in talking ants. You HAVE to believe in Buraq, the flying donkey on which Mohammed supposedly ascended to heaven. You HAVE to believe that Mohammed split the moon. You HAVE to believe that some insects attacked some invaders of the Kaaba, etc.

    So, it is not just purely the existence of Allah that makes one a Muslim. It is so much more and all of this is just another form of idolatry/shirk.



    Hope that clears your misconception that Islam is "monotheistic". Not by a long shot.

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    Re: Brahman is all the above?

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    Hello cuddledkitty:

    My 2 paises.

    It is actually wrong to consider Islam a "strict monotheistic" religion. When analyzed further, the amount of shirk in Islam is fairly high. For, to be a Muslim, you need to recite the Shahadah - "La Ilaha Il Allah...". As you will notice, the Shahadah is incomplete without mentioning "Mohammed Rasool Allah". That is Shirk. [Muslims will not admit this, but one cannot say "La Ilaha Il Allah" alone without mentioning Mohammed in the same breath as Allah and that is shirk]

    Next, let us come to idol worship. In my experience, Muslims like to accuse Hindus of "idol worship". When pointed out that bowing down to the Kaaba 5 times a day is also a form of "idol worship", Muslims become angry! Then when asked to define idol and then define idol worship in a fashion that would exclude bowing down to Kaaba 5 times a day, they cannot!

    Third, the very fact that Allah's words are limited to the Quran is another form of idol worship. In fact, you will notice that Muslims are the most violent when someone burns the Quran or makes fun of Mohammed. In my experience, Muslims are ok with atheists [those who deny the existence of God] - they think this is a common burden facing all theists. But whenever someone like Ali Sina or Robert Spencer or Dawid Wood questions the character of Mohammed, they become extremely angry! They seem to have more concern for Mohammed than Allah. Shirk!

    Fourthly, to be a Muslim, it is not enough you have a vague belief that some God exists. But more specifically, the entire Quran/hadiths have to be taken literally. That is, you HAVE to believe in the existence of arch-angels, like Jebriel, etc. You HAVE to believe in talking ants. You HAVE to believe in Buraq, the flying donkey on which Mohammed supposedly ascended to heaven. You HAVE to believe that Mohammed split the moon. You HAVE to believe that some insects attacked some invaders of the Kaaba, etc.

    So, it is not just purely the existence of Allah that makes one a Muslim. It is so much more and all of this is just another form of idolatry/shirk.



    Hope that clears your misconception that Islam is "monotheistic". Not by a long shot.
    Its suppose to be monotheistic but its no different then many other religions, its very misguided. And most outsiders think Muhammad is their god hence the anger. Islam is a monotheistic religion although not pure in concept no doubt but its the concept of God i am referring to based off teachings.
    [CENTER] "Although the effulgence of the moon is brilliant initially at night, in the daytime it fades away. Similarly, although the lotus is beautiful during the daytime, at night it closes. But, O My friend, the face of My most dear Srimati Radharani is always bright and beautiful, both day and night. Therefore, to what can Her face be compared?" Vidagdha Madhava 5:20

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    Re: Brahman is all the above?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Words are feeble, an attempt to define the infinite with finite words , they are not sufficient...

    Two things we know of the Supreme, the Highest, the unsurpassible (uttara & anuttara):
    • It is anirukta, unuttered , not articulated , unspeakable, and;
    • svatāsiddha, self proven ,self experienced i.e. svā + ta + siddha = one's own + crossing or virtue + accomplished i.e. self-accomplished
    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Brahman is all the above?

    Dear CK,

    The movement is from "I and God" - followed by Abrahamic religions. To "God in All" - seeing God in all as the same consciousness which connects us. To "All in God" - we all are part of the whole system called God. Just like the cells and organs are part of this body.

    Now if you look deeply, in all the cases the concept of God is One only.

    1. I and God - God is different than me and is residing somewhere. This is followed as Ista Devata or Krishna or God or Allah, etc. Here there is ONE god.

    2. God in All - The common thread that binds us is consciousness. It is the same electricity which flows through the bulbs, fans, ACs, refrigerator, washing machines, dishwasher, etc. Bodies might be different but electricity is ONE

    3. All in God - Everything is out of conscousness and is consciousness. Just like energy manifests as different matters which have different properties and distinguish from each other, similarly as consciousness manifests through lower forms of consciousness like subtle maters and gross matters, their property varies. It can be also compared with the artic sea, where you have lots of different forms of ice and icebergs floating in sea. All are different manifestaions of the same water. Again the whole together is Consciousness or Brahman and is ONE.

    However if 3rd is True for someone then 1st and 2nd is also true. If 2nd is true for someone the 1st is also true.

    That is the journey of the spiritual path.
    Love and best wishes:hug:

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    Re: Brahman is all the above?

    Quote Originally Posted by cuddledkitty View Post
    Ok as a true Hindu one will know that it is truly a monotheistic set of theological and philosophical set of teachings.
    dear cuddledkitty, Generally according to hinduism creator itself is the creation, or in other words it can be said that there is no creator, so hinduism is also non-theistic.



    The supreme deity or "Brahman" as one may say is in reality the only true god and all deva and devi are just representations of this
    though brahman is the ultimate reality i dont think it would be right to call it god or deity, because it does nothing, no qualities, it just simply exists. Neither there is any temple for brahman nor people offer prayer to it.

    Just my 2 cents, corrections are welcome ...

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    Post Re: Brahman is all the above?

    Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances.
    Lord Krishna in Bhagavad Gita clearly refutes the idea that he came from something impersonal. He clearly says that He is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Not the impersonal Brahman. The impersonal Brahman is merely his spiritual effulgence and He is the source of it.
    Bhagavad Gita 7.24:
    avyaktaḿ vyaktim āpannaḿ
    manyante mām abuddhayaḥ
    paraḿ bhāvam ajānanto
    mamāvyayam anuttamam
    Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.

    Bhagavad Gita 7.7:
    mattah parataram nanyat
    kincid asti dhananjaya
    mayi sarvam idam protam
    sutre mani-gana iva
    O conqueror of wealth [Arjuna], there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.

    Taittirīya Upaniṣad [2.5] states:
    ātmānandamayaḥ ānanda ātmā brahma pucchaṁ pratiṣṭhā
    The Supreme Lord is full of ecstasy. The impersonal Brahman is His bodily effulgence. He is the source of Brahman.

    Bhagavad Gita 14.27:
    brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham
    amṛtasyāvyayasya ca
    śāśvatasya ca dharmasya
    sukhasyaikāntikasya ca
    "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal."

    "Persons who are falsely under the impression of being liberated, without devotional service to the Lord, may reach the goal of the brahmajyoti, but because of their impure consciousness and for want of shelter in the Vaikuṇṭhalokas, such so-called liberated persons again fall down into material existence." [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 10.2.32]

    Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Upaniṣad [2.1] states:
    yathāgneḥ kṣudrā visphuliṅgā vyuccaranty evam evāsmād ātmanaḥ sarve prāṇāḥ sarve lokāḥ sarve devāḥ sarvāṇi bhūtāni vyuccaranti. tasyopaniṣat satyasya satyam iti
    Just as small sparks emanate from a big fire, similarly all living entities, all planets, all the demigods, and all material elements such as the earth emanate from the supreme soul, Śrī Govinda. His instructions are the supreme truth.

    In the Katha Upanishad (2.2.13) there is the important verse; nityo nityanam chetanas chetananam eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman: He is the supreme eternally conscious person who maintains all other living entities(spirit soul).

    Also another important verse from Katha Upanishad (2.3.8-9) says: Beyond the Brahmajyoti (nirguna or formless Brahman of the monist) there is the Great Purusha viz., Purushottama God who is all-pervading (as the Brahmajyoti) and without any empirical attributes, but having sat-chit-ananda--transcendental embodiment. He who realizes this Purushottama-tattva is finally liberated. Attaining a spiritual body he renders eternal service to the Purushottama [Supreme Being]. The Transcendental Personality of Godhead is beyond the purview of occult vision. But He can be apprehended through a pure transparent mind imbibed with intuitive wisdom born out of unalloyed devotional practices in the very core of ones own unstinted heart--those who have really got such a vision have gained final beatitude.

    Brahma-samhita (5.40)I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord who is endowed with great power. The glowing effulgence of His transcendental form is the impersonal Brahman, which is absolute, complete and unlimited, and which displays the varieties of countless planets with their different opulences in millions and millions of universes.

    Katha Upanishad (2.2.9):As with fire--the one original flame expands itself throughout the world by producing many more separate flames; similarly, the one Supreme Soul, who resides in every jiva, enters this cosmos and expands Himself in replica images known as pratibimba, or the jivas.

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    Talking Re: Brahman is all the above?

    Quote Originally Posted by sankar View Post
    Just my 2 cents.

    Hmmmm why 2 cents? why not 3, 4, 5, or more?

    To me it seems in Abrahamic faiths it exist as this. Notice the use of angel's, Holy Spirit, and jesus? Notice how God isnever spoken of as a being inthe Bible? Honestly a reality or truth fits this perfectly regarding Hindu to Abrahamic text. Allah in the Quran is almost a ghost with no true self and although the Bible mentions more it is still vague and in writing it seems as God is a presence. God is called Alpha and Omega which means beginning and end bascially meaning that God's form is time in which we all know is a "reality". God is referred to as an existence or time, not a person but merely a existence of eternal wisdom or "truth". The Abrahamic teachings fit well into the Sanatana Dharmic ones if you are like me and actually read the Bible and Quran
    [CENTER] "Although the effulgence of the moon is brilliant initially at night, in the daytime it fades away. Similarly, although the lotus is beautiful during the daytime, at night it closes. But, O My friend, the face of My most dear Srimati Radharani is always bright and beautiful, both day and night. Therefore, to what can Her face be compared?" Vidagdha Madhava 5:20

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    Re: Brahman is all the above?

    cuddledkitty,

    i just meant that brahman is not worth for worship like allah or jehovah, bible and quran says to worship their god. People(hindus) just understand brahman to be the reality, but dont worship it, thus there is no temples or praising mantras for that.

    Again, just my 2 cents ..
    Last edited by sankar; 08 May 2012 at 01:06 AM.

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    Re: Brahman is all the above?

    Quote Originally Posted by sankar View Post
    cuddledkitty,

    i just meant that brahman is not worth for worship like allah or jehovah, bible and quran says to worship their god. People(hindus) just understand brahman to be the reality, but dont worship it, thus there is no temples or praising mantras for that.

    Again, just my 2 cents ..
    You speak words of wisdom i think its worth 35 cents
    [CENTER] "Although the effulgence of the moon is brilliant initially at night, in the daytime it fades away. Similarly, although the lotus is beautiful during the daytime, at night it closes. But, O My friend, the face of My most dear Srimati Radharani is always bright and beautiful, both day and night. Therefore, to what can Her face be compared?" Vidagdha Madhava 5:20

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